Coilovers

[MRayfield]

I am looking to start gathering some build parts for my 69 and have been looking at coilovers 14-16''. I can't decide between 2.0 or 2.5'' bodies and spring rates. This will be a crawler build 60/14 351w/C6 203/205 doubler on 43'' tsl sx stickys.

For others running coilovers what size and spring rates are you running?

I could not find much weight info on the shocks. Are 2.0s sufficient enough for the weight of a bronco?

Thanks!

 

[Hinmaton]

I’m running 14” 2.0 w/ res. and I have a pretty heavy 74 Bronco crawler.
Unless you’re going to narrow and do a lot of cutting, I wouldn’t go with 16’s.
I have a 3” body lift and just make 14’s fit.
And even then, 12’s probably would have been fine. Gordon Bailie runs 12’s on all his rock crawlers and uses every inch of them on trails I still dream about running.

Hh


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[MRayfield]

I’m running 14” 2.0 w/ res. and I have a pretty heavy 74 Bronco crawler.
Unless you’re going to narrow and do a lot of cutting, I wouldn’t go with 16’s.
I have a 3” body lift and just make 14’s fit.
And even then, 12’s probably would have been fine. Gordon Bailie runs 12’s on all his rock crawlers and uses every inch of them on trails I still dream about running.

Hh


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Do you remember what spring rates you are running?

 

[Hinmaton]

I do, but I had them spec’d for my build. I also had the coilovers tuned for my build.
I believed the first two are for the fronts, the second two are for the rears.

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[MRayfield]

I do, but I had them spec’d for my build. I also had the coilovers tuned for my build.
I believed the first two are for the fronts, the second two are for the rears.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome, Thanks for the info.

 

[Yeller]

12’s do everything you can do crawling in a full bodied rig, really even in a buggy and are far easier to package. Don’t get sucked into the need to have 20” of wheel travel, it’s very difficult and compromising to package and creates stability issues. Unless your trying to run 100 across the desert there really is no need. I have 11-1/2” shocks-n-coils on mine and comfortably runs desert and trails as fast as I care to go, it will still go faster than I can look around and enjoy the scenery, so plenty fast, faster than most even with trick suspension and power trains are willing to go.

Focus on good suspension geometry and moderate travel, you’ll have a more versatile and usable build that you will be happier with in the long run. Remember don’t let on road drivability be compromised for off-road performance, it’s a lie. If it doesn’t drive well on the street it doesn’t work as well in the dirt, it just gets covered up. Only on road compromise that should ever be considered is full hydraulic steering, but then your relegating it to mostly trail use. Hydraulic steering can be street driven but can be quirky and not for the faint of heart.

 

[MRayfield]

12’s do everything you can do crawling in a full bodied rig, really even in a buggy and are far easier to package. Don’t get sucked into the need to have 20” of wheel travel, it’s very difficult and compromising to package and creates stability issues. Unless your trying to run 100 across the desert there really is no need. I have 11-1/2” shocks-n-coils on mine and comfortably runs desert and trails as fast as I care to go, it will still go faster than I can look around and enjoy the scenery, so plenty fast, faster than most even with trick suspension and power trains are willing to go.

Focus on good suspension geometry and moderate travel, you’ll have a more versatile and usable build that you will be happier with in the long run. Remember don’t let on road drivability be compromised for off-road performance, it’s a lie. If it doesn’t drive well on the street it doesn’t work as well in the dirt, it just gets covered up. Only on road compromise that should ever be considered is full hydraulic steering, but then your relegating it to mostly trail use. Hydraulic steering can be street driven but can be quirky and not for the faint of heart.

Sounds like 12's would be a good option. I haven't got any good measurements yet, just now dragging it out of the barn after 6yrs. I had plans to start with the rear first want to push the rear end back and 4link. Would like to stay as low as possible and keep the backseat for the kids. The front is already 3 linked with hydraulic assist just want to swap the coils for coilovers, gonna try to keep the steering as is in case of hydraulic failure.

 

[cag33]

How about some photos

 

[Montoya]

Here are some pics of my 16". I have 10" down and 6" up with 4" bumps.

I'm running large sway bars on both ends so that's helped keep the roll to a minimum.

I've only got a few miles on the setup so far but I'm happy to this point

 

[marjama]

I'll second (third, forth?) what everyone else has said - a 12" coilover is likely more than enough. Packaging does depend heavily on your setup. A full width axle gives you more space to work with (depending on your wheel offset to some extent). Tire diameter and intended ride height will dictate a lot of the build. I'm midway through stuffing 14" coilvers into my EB and things get a little crazy up front.

I'd take a look at JSmall's build if you want to keep the rear seat. He pulled it off. Actually, I'd spend a lot of time looking at all of the builds you can. It's a puzzle, but a pretty fun one to solve

 

[Yeller]

The back seat gets fairly easy to retain if the coilovers are mounted behind the axle, it allows for enough room to put a cross bar behind the seat or tie to the cage to support the top of the shock. it complicates sway bar mounting some but still doable. Be sure a swaybar similar to a Curry antirock is part of your build plans, especially in the rear, front can be omitted if packaging gets to be too much but a rear one has to be there.

 

[68ford]

Another thing to consider is running a shorter shock on a rear trailing arm and having it mount right behind the front seats. Rear drive shaft on a stock wheel base EB allows for around 18in of actual straight up and down wheel travel. With a shock mount 1/3 of the way up a trailing arm, you can achieve that with a 14in shock. Or maybe 16in travel with a 12in shock. A 12in shock would not stick up through the floor much. Of you run a 14in shock on top of the axle it will be well inside and up pretty high in the bed.
Also using closer to the middle of the rig to "lift" with the coilover let's you end up with more rear weight behind the lift point. This works as a pendulum and actually takes some weight of the front. That's a good thing for an EB that is almost always front heavy. By putting more weight on the rear shocks, you will run a stiffer spring yet ride the same. This is a good thing because most EBs with rear mounted coilovers almost always fight too soft of spring rate vs unsprung weight of the axle making the suspension not work well at an speed above 10mph.

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/R1982.html

 

[Yeller]

Another thing to consider is running a shorter shock on a rear trailing arm and having it mount right behind the front seats. Rear drive shaft on a stock wheel base EB allows for around 18in of actual straight up and down wheel travel. With a shock mount 1/3 of the way up a trailing arm, you can achieve that with a 14in shock. Or maybe 16in travel with a 12in shock. A 12in shock would not stick up through the floor much. Of you run a 14in shock on top of the axle it will be well inside and up pretty high in the bed.
Also using closer to the middle of the rig to "lift" with the coilover let's you end up with more rear weight behind the lift point. This works as a pendulum and actually takes some weight of the front. That's a good thing for an EB that is almost always front heavy. By putting more weight on the rear shocks, you will run a stiffer spring yet ride the same. This is a good thing because most EBs with rear mounted coilovers almost always fight too soft of spring rate vs unsprung weight of the axle making the suspension not work well at an speed above 10mph.

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/R1982.html

All very good points. you do have to make a decision about the intended use of the truck, if it is primarily a desert runner, 68 Ford's options are fantastic and do create a better riding set up. For those of you running this and think its the bee's knee's please don't take offense to what I'm about to say. For general trail work that is under 25mph and involves anything technical, especially vertical climbs, performance of trailing arm mounts suck, all of that weight transfer that is great at speed kills technical trail performance, been proven over and over.

In my opinion regardless of design you choose, proper spring rate calculation and having a really good shock tuner tune the shocks and adjust spring rates to perform to that specific design will make all the difference in the final happiness with the set up. Keep in mind no matter what you do it will not be perfect for all situations, everything is a compromise.

 

[MRayfield]

Guys I appreciate all the help and info. I will look into the build threads mentioned, I had tried searching coilover builds but there is so much that comes up it is hard to decipher what I'm looking for.

68ford I like the trailing arm idea, but I don't know if it would perform the way I would like after seeing Yeller's post.

The rig will see mostly SE trails like Windrock and AOP .

Anyone know of any good shock tuners in the southeast TN area?

 

[DRBRONCO69]

The back seat gets fairly easy to retain if the coilovers are mounted behind the axle, it allows for enough room to put a cross bar behind the seat or tie to the cage to support the top of the shock. it complicates sway bar mounting some but still doable. Be sure a swaybar similar to a Curry antirock is part of your build plans, especially in the rear, front can be omitted if packaging gets to be too much but a rear one has to be there.

This is great advice. Mount upper shock mounts behind rear seat, with tie bar across the hoops, plenty of room for a sway bar if you get crafty with a Currie setup, lowers on rear of axle tube and you can retain a rear seat. I'm running 16" s on my buggy but 14's would have been perfect. My spring rates and coil length are 16"long 200/ over 18" long 250 front, 16" long 100 over 18" long 150 in the rear. I am running 16" King 2.5 with remote reservoirs and were tuned specifically to my buggy.

Mike

Mike

 

[MRayfield]

This is great advice. Mount upper shock mounts behind rear seat, with tie bar across the hoops, plenty of room for a sway bar if you get crafty with a Currie setup, lowers on rear of axle tube and you can retain a rear seat. I'm running 16" s on my buggy but 14's would have been perfect. My spring rates and coil length are 16"long 200/ over 18" long 250 front, 16" long 100 over 18" long 150 in the rear. I am running 16" King 2.5 with remote reservoirs and were tuned specifically to my buggy.

Mike

Mike

Thanks for the info Mike. After looking at garage pics of your rig that is a lot of the way I'm looking to go.

I haven't decided if i will dove the front and rear though. I remember a while back seeing a build on here where the guy cut both sides off the tub off and removed a few inches and put the sides back on to avoid loosing the center console, a lot of extra work but i liked the outcome.

 

[68ford]

Guys I appreciate all the help and info. I will look into the build threads mentioned, I had tried searching coilover builds but there is so much that comes up it is hard to decipher what I'm looking for.

68ford I like the trailing arm idea, but I don't know if it would perform the way I would like after seeing Yeller's post.

The rig will see mostly SE trails like Windrock and AOP .

Anyone know of any good shock tuners in the southeast TN area?

I have no experience in how transferring some of the weight to rear affects climbing in rocks at low speed. It was more of a suggestion for a way to get more wheel travel than mounting a long shock on the axle and having it poke through real high into the bed requiring a cross bar. A 12in shock on a trailing arm would barely poke through the bed and would not require a cross bar due to not being tall off the frame. So very little interior space affected.
I do have enough shock experience to know that less than 200lb spring rates will be a huge hindurance at any speed above crawling. The unsprung weight of a solid axle is way to much for that light of spring rate to make move up and down decently. But that may not be an issue based on use. If a coilover is mounted on a trailing arm it requires considerably more spring rate due to supporting more weight, which ends up helping because it makes the ratio of sprung weight vs unsprung weight greater.

 

[Yeller]

I have no experience in how transferring some of the weight to rear affects climbing in rocks at low speed. It was more of a suggestion for a way to get more wheel travel than mounting a long shock on the axle and having it poke through real high into the bed requiring a cross bar. A 12in shock on a trailing arm would barely poke through the bed and would not require a cross bar due to not being tall off the frame. So very little interior space affected.
I do have enough shock experience to know that less than 200lb spring rates will be a huge hindurance at any speed above crawling. The unsprung weight of a solid axle is way to much for that light of spring rate to make move up and down decently. But that may not be an issue based on use. If a coilover is mounted on a trailing arm it requires considerably more spring rate due to supporting more weight, which ends up helping because it makes the ratio of sprung weight vs unsprung weight greater.

Looks like I’m eating a bit of humble pie this evening.....

68ford, I have the utmost if respect in regards to your knowledge and expertise, and why I made a disclaimer. I should have spent more time thinking my comments though, my apologies if anyone felt I was overly aggressive. You are 100% correct about the high speed application and the benefits. We just run in opposite circles and both passionate about our passions

Everyone east of the Rockies feels fortunate to have a few hundred acres that someone will allow us to pay them for it’s use, we don’t have the opportunities to open up and make speed so we look for technical stuff to do so we can spend a day or weekend and not run everything in 20 minutes, just different land access opportunities creating different philosophies and vehicle designs. They all have their merits in their own way and don’t always play nice together, at least in design lol

 

[68ford]

Looks like I’m eating a bit of humble pie this evening.....

68ford, I have the utmost if respect in regards to your knowledge and expertise, and why I made a disclaimer. I should have spent more time thinking my comments though, my apologies if anyone felt I was overly aggressive. You are 100% correct about the high speed application and the benefits. We just run in opposite circles and both passionate about our passions

Everyone east of the Rockies feels fortunate to have a few hundred acres that someone will allow us to pay them for it’s use, we don’t have the opportunities to open up and make speed so we look for technical stuff to do so we can spend a day or weekend and not run everything in 20 minutes, just different land access opportunities creating different philosophies and vehicle designs. They all have their merits in their own way and don’t always play nice together, at least in design lol

No biggie, I didn't take it as aggressive or you saying I did not know what I was talking about. Likewise I would not question your knowledge of a different use than I use mine for.
You guys don't have open desert where you can average 50mph if you wanted? ;D

I took my race truck out last weekend with the so cal early bronco guys since my bronco is broken.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL--a4BB8Qh/?igshid=epfgjk9nlhrx

 

[stout22]

We average 50 mph - on the pavement, getting to the spot to offroad%)