Bronco graveyard and Wood Feroce steering wheel

[jasonmcc]

Sometimes they have parts drop shipped from the manufacturer, do you know if this was the case?

No, I don't know if that was the case.

 

[jasonmcc]

Looks like their going to allow me to ship back the damaged wheel they sent me. Maybe I'm crazy but sending someone a broken item then telling them they have to wait weeks for a manufacturer warranty approval isn't thinking of customer retention. It's not an item that broke over time it was DOA.

Hello Jason,

We are sorry you feel "forced" to go through our warranty process. We have contacted the manufacturer and are waiting on them. We cannot make them respond to our requests any faster, if we could we definitely would. We are not in the business of trying to make things harder on our customers. We would like it to be as seamless as possible. Because you would not like to adhere to the same way of doing things that other customers do we will email you a return label for steering wheel kit and get you refunded right away to avoid you having to incur any further inconvenience.

Please check your email for the return label, print it off at your convenience, tape it to the box and drop it at any UPS facility or drop box.

Thank you



On 1/23/2019 10:05 AM, Jason Mc wrote:
I’d like to ship the steering wheel back and get a refund. The item arrived damaged and it should have been rectified immediately not forcing me to go through feroce warranty. Please let me know how I go about getting a refund.

 

[Slowleak]

Wow...... It’s all your fault!! You are not supposed to feel “forced” when they try to force you to “adhere to the same way of doing things that other customers do”. You rebel!

I think they just moved a few notches down on my vendor list.....

 

[rpmgarage22]

Jason,

As a vendor myself, I would have to say that the tone of their response is unacceptable...and the explanation incomplete. But, it is also unusual. Our community is a small one, and we all have our bad days, but we generally handle these situations with a bit more tact and understanding.

Generally, I am the last one to make apologies or excuses for others, but I hope that you will continue to consider all of us when it comes to your Bronco needs. We each have areas that we specialize or are more knowledgeable in, and we generally know what the competition does well, too.

Return policies can be different when dealing with products that are drop-shipped or not manufactured by the vendor. The saying of "well i bought it from you, so I'm sending it back to you" is poor advice to follow. There are many manufacturers who do not sell direct to the public, but also do not allow their distributors to make return/warranty decisions. If you need their parts, you can't buy from them. If you need to return, you can't return it to the distributor. What can you do? That is the business model for many manufacturers, and it is universally followed, if not universally accepted.

Further, the "just do a chargeback through your credit card company" is poor advice, too. First, read the fine print with your card issuing company. It is far from as simple as the quote reads. It is also not without risk on your part. Needless to say, the vendor would likely refuse to sell to you again, which may not be a concern if you planned not to buy from them again anyway. But, the burden of proof is still on you...and it requires more than hitting a button on a keyboard.

With the product in your possession, and failing to follow their return protocol, you would be committing credit card fraud, as that is not what the "chargeback feature" is for with any cardholder. Further, if your card company did place the funds back on your account, your continued possession of the products, damaged or not, constitutes de facto theft.

There are two better choices, though each has its drawbacks:
First, you can purchase the replacement part on a separate invoice while allowing the return process to proceed under their protocol, based upon the original invoice. Yes, it ties up additional funds for a few weeks, but you get your part sooner so that you can continue your build. Then, when the process completes, they refund your money and you still only paid for the part that you got.

Second, follow their return process and wait for the investigation to complete. The vendor then sends you the replacement part at no additional charge to you, and usually a return label to retrieve the damaged part (sometimes this step comes first). In this example, you are out additional time, but no additional money.

At the end of the day, none of the vendors want to send you an incorrect, incomplete, or damaged part. Regardless, things happen. Thankfully, it is the exception, and not the rule.

Remember, the relationship is a two-way street. The expectation, from both parties, is that everything goes smoothly and everyone is happy. Just because it doesn't go smoothly, does not turn it into a one-way street where the vendor is the only one who has to "give". It is unfortunate, but your patience and reasonable expectations are part of the process. There are prescribed ways to achieve a favorable outcome.

That having been said, I am surprised and disappointed that the staff at the Graveyard appear to have failed so miserably at processing what sounds like a simple product replacement.

Best of luck with your Bronco. It may not make you feel any better, but I bet we have all "been there", and it is always an uncomfortable situation. Hopefully, they "do right" by you in the end and you can come away feeling content with the resolution...if not happy about it or wanting to buy from them again.

 

[Slowleak]

That having been said, I am surprised and disappointed that the staff at the Graveyard appear to have failed so miserably at processing what sounds like a simple product replacement.

Jason mentioned that he did not know if the wheel was drop shipped. Obviously they could have handled this in a more timely fashion but, other that that, since they are following what you have described as a universally accepted business model, what would they have done differently?

The business model, with drop shipping, you describe is the RockAuto model. I no longer order from them after attempted returns of several incorrect parts. I got the same run-around and then found several threads here about their drop shipping and return policy....

 

[rydog1130]

Also a question for the OP, how long did you have the part before opening it? I know I've ordered stuff ahead of time knowing I'll need it later and not open it until a month or 2 later ...sometimes longer. This can add issues to returning an item...

 

[jasonmcc]

Jason,

As a vendor myself, I would have to say that the tone of their response is unacceptable...and the explanation incomplete. But, it is also unusual. Our community is a small one, and we all have our bad days, but we generally handle these situations with a bit more tact and understanding.

Generally, I am the last one to make apologies or excuses for others, but I hope that you will continue to consider all of us when it comes to your Bronco needs. We each have areas that we specialize or are more knowledgeable in, and we generally know what the competition does well, too.

Return policies can be different when dealing with products that are drop-shipped or not manufactured by the vendor. The saying of "well i bought it from you, so I'm sending it back to you" is poor advice to follow. There are many manufacturers who do not sell direct to the public, but also do not allow their distributors to make return/warranty decisions. If you need their parts, you can't buy from them. If you need to return, you can't return it to the distributor. What can you do? That is the business model for many manufacturers, and it is universally followed, if not universally accepted.

Further, the "just do a chargeback through your credit card company" is poor advice, too. First, read the fine print with your card issuing company. It is far from as simple as the quote reads. It is also not without risk on your part. Needless to say, the vendor would likely refuse to sell to you again, which may not be a concern if you planned not to buy from them again anyway. But, the burden of proof is still on you...and it requires more than hitting a button on a keyboard.

With the product in your possession, and failing to follow their return protocol, you would be committing credit card fraud, as that is not what the "chargeback feature" is for with any cardholder. Further, if your card company did place the funds back on your account, your continued possession of the products, damaged or not, constitutes de facto theft.

There are two better choices, though each has its drawbacks:
First, you can purchase the replacement part on a separate invoice while allowing the return process to proceed under their protocol, based upon the original invoice. Yes, it ties up additional funds for a few weeks, but you get your part sooner so that you can continue your build. Then, when the process completes, they refund your money and you still only paid for the part that you got.

Second, follow their return process and wait for the investigation to complete. The vendor then sends you the replacement part at no additional charge to you, and usually a return label to retrieve the damaged part (sometimes this step comes first). In this example, you are out additional time, but no additional money.

At the end of the day, none of the vendors want to send you an incorrect, incomplete, or damaged part. Regardless, things happen. Thankfully, it is the exception, and not the rule.

Remember, the relationship is a two-way street. The expectation, from both parties, is that everything goes smoothly and everyone is happy. Just because it doesn't go smoothly, does not turn it into a one-way street where the vendor is the only one who has to "give". It is unfortunate, but your patience and reasonable expectations are part of the process. There are prescribed ways to achieve a favorable outcome.

That having been said, I am surprised and disappointed that the staff at the Graveyard appear to have failed so miserably at processing what sounds like a simple product replacement.

Best of luck with your Bronco. It may not make you feel any better, but I bet we have all "been there", and it is always an uncomfortable situation. Hopefully, they "do right" by you in the end and you can come away feeling content with the resolution...if not happy about it or wanting to buy from them again.

I'd never take the actions of one to judge a whole. In today's business model where the "big box" stores generally have the upper hand on price, there is little small business can do to compete. Luckily there's a competitive edge that allows them to retain market share, "customer service". At the end of the day, I'd rather give my money to a smaller business with a perceived mutual passion "I love broncos, they love broncos". With that being said it elicits the question "How would this have played out if I sourced the parts from Summit or Amazon"? Either way, this won't deter me from using the companies that help support this community now and in the future. Ironically enough I just received a call from Pat offering to send out a replacement right away.

 

[jasonmcc]

Also a question for the OP, how long did you have the part before opening it? I know I've ordered stuff ahead of time knowing I'll need it later and not open it until a month or 2 later ...sometimes longer. This can add issues to returning an item...

You're right that would make problems that would be understandable. In this case, it arrived that day sometime and I opened it that evening. I made a call to them immediately but they had already closed for the day. I called them again the next day and spoke with one of their employees. I also took pictures immediately with my phone which would have time taken and location in the EXIF.

 

[rpmgarage22]

I'd never take the actions of one to judge a whole. In today's business model where the "big box" stores generally have the upper hand on price, there is little small business can do to compete. Luckily there's a competitive edge that allows them to retain market share, "customer service". At the end of the day, I'd rather give my money to a smaller business with a perceived mutual passion "I love broncos, they love broncos". With that being said it elicits the question "How would this have played out if I sourced the parts from Summit or Amazon"? Either way, this won't deter me from using the companies that help support this community now and in the future. Ironically enough I just received a call from Pat offering to send out a replacement right away.

Thank you for recognizing that, Jason. I hope someone from JBG is monitoring and takes heed to the impact it could have on their business in the near and long term future.

 

[Slowleak]

I'd never take the actions of one to judge a whole. In today's business model where the "big box" stores generally have the upper hand on price, there is little small business can do to compete. Luckily there's a competitive edge that allows them to retain market share, "customer service". At the end of the day, I'd rather give my money to a smaller business with a perceived mutual passion "I love broncos, they love broncos". With that being said it elicits the question "How would this have played out if I sourced the parts from Summit or Amazon"? Either way, this won't deter me from using the companies that help support this community now and in the future. Ironically enough I just received a call from Pat offering to send out a replacement right away.

Your are right on track but your experience does make me think about it more before I order. I ordered a relay this morning. Went to the RockAuto site to find the one I needed, went to Amazon to get it. No issues with returns from Amazon if I have a problem.

I can site a real example from one of the vendors in our “small community”. I ordered carpet and it was drop shipped from the manufacturer. Turns out it was ‘76 carpet and I have a ‘77. The rear wheel wells are different.

I called and said I got the wrong carpet. The response was “Sorry about that..... I’ll call them and take care of it. Look for an email from me today”. That was 4pm. The next morning, literally 18 hours later, new carpet was at my doorstep. I got an email with a return label to stick on the box of old carpet, and UPS picked it up at my door that afternoon. One phone call, no hassles........

That’s an example of a small Bronco only vendor using drop shipping, and providing the kind of service that keeps me coming back.

 

[rpmgarage22]

Jason mentioned that he did not know if the wheel was drop shipped. Obviously they could have handled this in a more timely fashion but, other that that, since they are following what you have described as a universally accepted business model, what would they have done differently?

The business model, with drop shipping, you describe is the RockAuto model. I no longer order from them after attempted returns of several incorrect parts. I got the same run-around and then found several threads here about their drop shipping and return policy....

No, Sir. That is not the business model that I described. I am talking about the distributor model chosen by many manufacturers, not just a logistics company (Which is basically what Rock Auto does...they facilitate moving a finished product from A to B...they don't manufacture anything.)

Further, I did not say universally "accepted"... I'm not even a fan of it myself.

BTW: One reason that the original model was developed was to prevent distributors from expecting the manufacturer to refund costs due to the distributors' "no questions asked" return policies. Distributors had zero risk in that method and regularly took advantage of the manufacturers, who took incredible losses with no control over the validity of the return.

The Amazons, WalMarts, and RockAutos of the world crested an unrealistic expectation. There is no "free shipping". They used their size to pass the buck to the "little guys". But, then trained the consumer to expect the same "service" from the "little guys", who are already footing the bill for both sides of that coin.

Another reason is because manufacturers began losing faith in distributors' ability to "tech" issues when they arose. This is an accurate concern. The state of the modern "order taker" is the problem. They don't know anything about the product that they sell, and they could care less about learning. When someone calls in with an issue, they have no idea how to "tech" the concern. Manufacturers had to re-open tech departments and demand to field calls again. This actually reduced returns significantly.

But, people still order parts and have no idea whether they are ordering the right part, no expectation that they might need to modify for their application, nothing. And, they don't pick up the phone and call. Or, they "just want to see how it looks on mine." None of that should be the responsibility of the distributor, or the manufacturer, but the consumer has somehow become justified in expecting it to be.

Bottom line, if you don't know the protocol of the company that you choose to deal with, call before you order and ask about it. It is very possible that their protocol is one that you don't like. Then, you don't do business with them. But, you avoid the headache, both felt and caused, in the event that there ended up being an issue with your order.

 

[Slowleak]

I was referring to this statement “If you need to return, you can't return it to the distributor. What can you do? That is the business model for many manufacturers, and it is universally followed, if not universally accepted.” With that model, the distributor is not allowed to make the decision to return it to the manufacturer. It is up to the manufacturers discretion. Maybe it is universally accepted by distributors but I would say it certainly is not by customers.

The vendor we are talking about orders from a manufacturer that requires them to use that model. Jason ordered a wheel, it was damaged, and he could not return it to the distributor just as the model describes. I am sure we are talking about the same model.

So, It was always the vendors choice to not accept his return. They could have asked him to return the wheel and they could sort out the issue with the manufacturer. They always had that option regardless of what the manufacturer of the wheel said, and they eventually agreed to do so.

My carpet example is no different. That vendor, that I ordered from, drop ships some items, warehouses some items, and manufacturers some items. I don’t care where they source the product I purchase, or where it is shipped from. They have always handled any issues just as they did.... they are not too large, or to small to be able to do that, and customers value that level of service.

The rest of what you mention, shipping costs, order takers lack of knowledge and tech skills, customers not ordering the right items, is all irrelevant in the case. None of that applies. We are talking about how a vendor handled a damaged item.

I’m still interested in your thoughts about how they could have handled this better. Maybe I’m just an old fart and still expect more from people....

 

[rpmgarage22]

I was referring to this statement “If you need to return, you can't return it to the distributor. What can you do? That is the business model for many manufacturers, and it is universally followed, if not universally accepted.” With that model, the distributor is not allowed to make the decision to return it to the manufacturer. It is up to the manufacturers discretion. Maybe it is universally accepted by distributors but I would say it certainly is not by customers.

The vendor we are talking about orders from a manufacturer that requires them to use that model. Jason ordered a wheel, it was damaged, and he could not return it to the distributor just as the model describes. I am sure we are talking about the same model.

So, It was always the vendors choice to not accept his return. They could have asked him to return the wheel and they could sort out the issue with the manufacturer. They always had that option regardless of what the manufacturer of the wheel said, and they eventually agreed to do so.

My carpet example is no different. That vendor, that I ordered from, drop ships some items, warehouses some items, and manufacturers some items. I don’t care where they source the product I purchase, or where it is shipped from. They have always handled any issues just as they did.... they are not too large, or to small to be able to do that, and customers value that level of service.

The rest of what you mention, shipping costs, order takers lack of knowledge and tech skills, customers not ordering the right items, is all irrelevant in the case. None of that applies. We are talking about how a vendor handled a damaged item.

I’m still interested in your thoughts about how they could have handled this better. Maybe I’m just an old fart and still expect more from people....

When you say, "They", I think you mean JBG, right?
I think a salesman, supervisor, whoever, should have been on the phone with Jason. First, I would ask the usual questions about the packaging, ask for pictures, etc.
Second, since I would know my return policy, and maybe assume that he wouldn't, I would reiterate the return policy (not saying that I know JBG's, because I don't...).
Using my two options, I would explain both and ask which he preferred.
I usually follow-up with an e-mail (kind of as confirmation, as well), apologize for the situation, and thank them for their business.
However, I would not have sent an e-mail with the apparent tone from the one Jason reports here. Nor, would I allow an employee to do so. It was of no assistance or comfort to the situation or the customer.

 

[bronconut73]

I just read JBG's response.
Wow.

That guy would be fired immediately if he worked for me.

Condescending,
Rude,
Presumptuous.

It would be foolish to "speak" to a customer that way, but to email a customer with that BS response is on a level of stupid I am not familiar with in our Bronco vendor community, ......oh wait this is JBG....i Almost forgot....yea they really don't seem to care anymore.

 

[Slowleak]

When you say, "They", I think you mean JBG, right?

I think a salesman, supervisor, whoever, should have been on the phone with Jason. First, I would ask the usual questions about the packaging, ask for pictures, etc.

Second, since I would know my return policy, and maybe assume that he wouldn't, I would reiterate the return policy (not saying that I know JBG's, because I don't...).

Using my two options, I would explain both and ask which he preferred.

I usually follow-up with an e-mail (kind of as confirmation, as well), apologize for the situation, and thank them for their business.

However, I would not have sent an e-mail with the apparent tone from the one Jason reports here. Nor, would I allow an employee to do so. It was of no assistance or comfort to the situation or the customer.

I’m just referencing the current damaged item and how they (JBG) or any vendor in a similar situation, could have handled the issue better. Obviously it should have been handled with a better tone and better response times. I’m more interested in what the policy and procedure should be. That’s what my question is about.

I don’t know what two options you are referring to when you say you would “explain both”. I don’t believe that Jason was given but one option. What other options would you provide, or should they have provided?

Keep in mind that this is not a result of shipping damage. Their website mentions inspecting items for damage and that all items must be returned and any damage reported within 72 hours. This obviously refers to shipping damage since it mentions a shipping company investigation. Jason did notify them and they did not file a shipping damage claim.

Since there was no evidence of shipping damage, and no claim filed, they decided to handle this as a defective product. They saw the pictures and saw the damage which I would say is much more than a routine defect.

The section covering defective products mentions this “Any parts sent for warranty are subject to inspection by Jeff's Bronco Graveyard staff and it is our choice whether to honor these warranties on a case-by-case basis.” Nothing mentions the manufacturers role in this.

So, it’s not a mis-order, it was not shipping damage, most likely is not a manufacturing defect, and we are not sure if it was shipped from JBG or drop shipped. Jason did exactly what their policy requires. Knowing all that and after seeing the details and the pictures Jason provided, what other options should they have offered?

This isn’t a test.... just interested in hearing how other vendors would handle it....

 

[roundhouse]

Initiating a chargeback for a smashed and unusable item that the seller refuses to do anything about in a timely manner is not theft

And damaged items is part of the risk the seller has to accept and deal with when they are merely a drop shipper

Nice business model
Have a catalog or website filled with items manufactured by others , just a a huge markup , usually 100% or more

Take the $ from customer , pay less than half of it for the item to be shipped from the manufacturer
Pocket the difference

Refuse to accept any liability
“Talk to the manufacturer “

Ca Ching .


I’d do a chargeback in a minute
Usually that’s what you have to do to get any action from a vendor

I ordered a complete engine a few years ago
It arrived missing some items
Many many phone calls produced promises of replacement parts but no results

I callled the credit card company and explained the situation
They did a chargeback

The seller called me within ten minutes furious that I had done a chargeback,

I explained that after many many phone callls and promises and lies over two weeks I was done

Magically the parts that were missing got sent out fed ex overnight that day
And the seller called me five minutes after delivery demanding I call the credit card co and cancel the chargeback

 

[rpmgarage22]

Initiating a chargeback for a smashed and unusable item that the seller refuses to do anything about in a timely manner is not theft

Whether damaged or not, your willful possession of property that you did not pay for IS theft. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you get to decide on your own definition of words. That makes you a thief, plain and simple, legally and morally.

And damaged items is part of the risk the seller has to accept and deal with

Which is exactly why they have return protocols. See where I am going here? Follow the protocol, be made whole. It is that simple.

Nice business model
Have a catalog or website filled with items manufactured by others , just a a huge markup , usually 100% or more

You clearly have no concept of how businesses ARE run and what margins are attainable in today's retail economy. The fact that you even choose to use the word "markup" is one giveaway (Look up the word "margin" to learn how manufacturers and retailers actually determine the amount that they have to charge for a product.). Your opinion that "markup" is "usually 100% or more" is the second giveaway. Sounds like you are confusing your ideas with the Mary Kay Cosmetics "business model".

Part two: why do you think there are so few manufacturer in this country anymore?


Refuse to accept any liability

Again...protocol.


“Talk to the manufacturer “

In some cases, you must. In others, probably not. Depends upon the part...or the manufacturer.




I’d do a chargeback in a minute

And that makes it right? Because YOU would do it? I guess if you are okay with theft, a chargeback is no big deal.


Usually that’s what you have to do to get any action from a vendor

That is far from accurate.

 

[rpmgarage22]

I don’t know what two options you are referring to when you say you would “explain both”. I don’t believe that Jason was given but one option. What other options would you provide, or should they have provided?

There are two better choices, though each has its drawbacks:
First, you can purchase the replacement part on a separate invoice while allowing the return process to proceed under their protocol, based upon the original invoice. Yes, it ties up additional funds for a few weeks, but you get your part sooner so that you can continue your build. Then, when the process completes, they refund your money and you still only paid for the part that you got.

Second, follow their return process and wait for the investigation to complete. The vendor then sends you the replacement part at no additional charge to you, and usually a return label to retrieve the damaged part (sometimes this step comes first). In this example, you are out additional time, but no additional money.

At the end of the day, none of the vendors want to send you an incorrect, incomplete, or damaged part. Regardless, things happen. Thankfully, it is the exception, and not the rule.



This isn’t a test.... just interested in hearing how other vendors would handle it....[/QUOTE]

Many have the protocol that I described. This includes many of the "Big Boys", as well.

 

[Slowleak]

There are two better choices, though each has its drawbacks:

First, you can purchase the replacement part on a separate invoice while allowing the return process to proceed under their protocol, based upon the original invoice. Yes, it ties up additional funds for a few weeks, but you get your part sooner so that you can continue your build. Then, when the process completes, they refund your money and you still only paid for the part that you got.


Second, follow their return process and wait for the investigation to complete. The vendor then sends you the replacement part at no additional charge to you, and usually a return label to retrieve the damaged part (sometimes this step comes first). In this example, you are out additional time, but no additional money.



At the end of the day, none of the vendors want to send you an incorrect, incomplete, or damaged part. Regardless, things happen. Thankfully, it is the exception, and not the rule.

Many have the protocol that I described. This includes many of the "Big Boys", as well.

Times have changed..
That’s really only one option. The settlement option is the same. You are simply saying they can buy another one and wait for settlement, or wait for settlement. It favors the vendor, ties up the consumers funds, and has a negative impact on return business.

I can think of at least two more options, both have been standard procedure for businesses forever, and something a consumer values and appreciates. They have a positive impact on return business.

Option 1) Return the defective item for a refund.
Option 2) Ship a replacement. This is the remedy that consumers appreciate and what JBG eventually did.

I have had many vendors tell me, “Just keep it if it is damaged, we can’t use it. We will ship you a new one”

BTW... It is perfectly legal to request a chargeback if you have disputed charges for a damaged item and have not received a satisfactory response. It is covered by the Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA) which protects consumers from fraudulent charges and specifically covers damaged goods.

“Credit card users who feel helpless when dealing with merchants that provide shoddy goods and services should know they have a powerful tool available to them: chargebacks.

A chargeback occurs when a credit card holder disputes a charge and the transaction is reversed. People tend to think of chargebacks as remedies for billing errors or fraudulent purchases. But consumers can also dispute a charge if they’re dissatisfied with the quality of merchandise, service or delivery and the merchant refuses to make things right, according to the federal Fair Credit Billing Act.”
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/cre...gn=ct_prod&utm_source=forbes&utm_medium=mpsyn

 

[nsiti]

For $40 more you could have gotten a Nardi with free shipping.

Can you please advise where? The corresponding Nardi (Anni '50 - 5038.39.3000) seems to cost 3x ($200 vs. $600) the price.