EarlybroncoHI
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Rusty, I will try do that today after work.. so I measure the distance between the axles right?
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Steering advice needed (scary slop in steering)
- Thread starter EarlybroncoHI
- Start date
Rustytruck
Bronco Guru
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2002
- Messages
- 10,875
If you want to check the wheel base check from the inside of the lip on one rim to the outside lip of the rim on the other side. Check both sides of the truck and compare each other.
To down and dirty check the caster with the wheels pointed ahead on a flat surface. stick the magnet of the angle gauge on the bottom of the front lower ball joint. Your measuring how much the ball joint is tilting back. your looking to see if the housing is tilting back or forward. Think of the ball joints in line going straight up and down when made. If its tilting back 4 degrees or so your in the ball park. If its leaning forward towards the front of the truck its all bad and you will need to deal with the C-bushings or other methods of getting it to tilt back. This isnt very accurate but will tell you if your on the right side of things. kind of like a go or no go gauge.
you have replacement C-bushings so some caster adjustment may already be in them. not enough or even upside down or 2 fronts on one side and 2 rears on the other. Allot of mistakes have been found through all the years. after all the work done on the front end of your truck you should not be having these problems. But you are, so its just going to take the time to find the problem. Especially since you don't have your alignment printouts that you paid for.
To down and dirty check the caster with the wheels pointed ahead on a flat surface. stick the magnet of the angle gauge on the bottom of the front lower ball joint. Your measuring how much the ball joint is tilting back. your looking to see if the housing is tilting back or forward. Think of the ball joints in line going straight up and down when made. If its tilting back 4 degrees or so your in the ball park. If its leaning forward towards the front of the truck its all bad and you will need to deal with the C-bushings or other methods of getting it to tilt back. This isnt very accurate but will tell you if your on the right side of things. kind of like a go or no go gauge.
you have replacement C-bushings so some caster adjustment may already be in them. not enough or even upside down or 2 fronts on one side and 2 rears on the other. Allot of mistakes have been found through all the years. after all the work done on the front end of your truck you should not be having these problems. But you are, so its just going to take the time to find the problem. Especially since you don't have your alignment printouts that you paid for.
Hi, I wouldn't buy any new parts, except for installing the new c bushings, until you get your alignment numbers. If everything is checking out you are wasting your time and money guessing what to do until you get your alignment numbers. I'll add that considering the changes on your front end, the factory numbers are not going to give you the best handling. If you have very low or negative caster, that needs to be fixed first. More caster gives you high speed stability. Power steering broncos can take more caster unless the u joint starts to bind. I don't think it has been mentioned, but a very small steering wheel will only magnify any problem. A large stock size steering wheel will give you more control. Good luck
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 47,645
And regarding the cost, that's why I mentioned just getting it checked and no actual alignment adjustments made. In the hopes that your local shop was one of those that would charge you less for just putting you up on the rack and not actually touching anything.
Do you think they'd do that? Or are you in for the full amount no matter what?
Might be worth a quick check, just to see if they'd take a moment and be fair about it.
Paul
Do you think they'd do that? Or are you in for the full amount no matter what?
Might be worth a quick check, just to see if they'd take a moment and be fair about it.
Paul
Local Boy
Full Member
Brutha,
Remove your stabilizer... That thing will bind when turning left... and.... the stabilizer U bolt mount ... at the ball joint (bottom), where it meets the tie rod (middle)... I'd bet is binding (contacting) with the tie rod when turning right and the suspension cycles up...That space decreases as you turn right...even more so when the suspension cycles upward... Take a look to see if there is scaring on the tie rod ...right where the U bolts are mounted...
Good Luck!
Aloha
Remove your stabilizer... That thing will bind when turning left... and.... the stabilizer U bolt mount ... at the ball joint (bottom), where it meets the tie rod (middle)... I'd bet is binding (contacting) with the tie rod when turning right and the suspension cycles up...That space decreases as you turn right...even more so when the suspension cycles upward... Take a look to see if there is scaring on the tie rod ...right where the U bolts are mounted...
Good Luck!
Aloha
Last edited:
EarlybroncoHI
New Member
EarlybroncoHI
New Member
Mahalo cuz, I go try take um off. Hopefully tow it home today
EarlybroncoHI
New Member
I’m gonna go see if the shop still has my numbers in the system
Revelation
Bronco Guru
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2004
- Messages
- 4,812
Check the frame where the steering box is. With everything else checking out OK I would say you have a cracked frame.
EarlybroncoHI
New Member
Local Boy
Full Member
OH Brutha.... Your low caster is killing you...
Your pinion is sticking up too much...The pics show it also...
You need to correct it with new C-bushings...
Aloha
Your pinion is sticking up too much...The pics show it also...
You need to correct it with new C-bushings...
Aloha
EarlybroncoHI
New Member
Finally getting somewhere.. don’t know why my mechanic didn’t tell me this.. he’s fired lol. C bushings just got here today.. Wild Horses kick ass.. usually takes for ever to get parts to the islands haha
Local Boy
Full Member
Amen Brutha, on the shipping wait times!
WH does real good on speed of delivery...
Good luck!
Aloha
WH does real good on speed of delivery...
Good luck!
Aloha
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 47,645
Yep, what he said about the pinion angle. You have a long way to go before you're into any sort of u-joint bind, so the 7 degree bushings should pose no issue there.
But your .2 and .4 degree caster readings are a bummer before the summer.
When you remove the old bushings, see if you can find any of the old markings. They tend to get wiped out from use, but some of them are in safe spots and might have survived.
The typical numbers are 2, 4 and 7, but there were 6.5's as well, but those would almost certainly have been blue.
When installing the new ones, you'll see how the instructions say to orient them. You'll see wording like "front lower" or "rear upper" or vice versa.
Remember, all four bushings are exactly the same part. How they are installed depends solely on what position on the truck they go. Whether in front of the axle, under the cap. Or behind the axle in the radius arm.
Just make a note of it, and verify you did it properly before you run the bolts down. Then, just before you're ready to put the caps on and start the bolts, VERIFY IT AGAIN!
Haha! Just saying that because I've watched pros and pro-level garage mechanics who know exactly how they're installed, still put them in backwards in a moment of inattention or rushing to get the job done.
I can't tell you how many C-bushing installs have had to be done twice! Plenty of the same story here on the forums too. So, in the immortal words of Han Solo, don't get cocky.
Enjoy.
Paul
But your .2 and .4 degree caster readings are a bummer before the summer.
When you remove the old bushings, see if you can find any of the old markings. They tend to get wiped out from use, but some of them are in safe spots and might have survived.
The typical numbers are 2, 4 and 7, but there were 6.5's as well, but those would almost certainly have been blue.
When installing the new ones, you'll see how the instructions say to orient them. You'll see wording like "front lower" or "rear upper" or vice versa.
Remember, all four bushings are exactly the same part. How they are installed depends solely on what position on the truck they go. Whether in front of the axle, under the cap. Or behind the axle in the radius arm.
Just make a note of it, and verify you did it properly before you run the bolts down. Then, just before you're ready to put the caps on and start the bolts, VERIFY IT AGAIN!
Haha! Just saying that because I've watched pros and pro-level garage mechanics who know exactly how they're installed, still put them in backwards in a moment of inattention or rushing to get the job done.
I can't tell you how many C-bushing installs have had to be done twice! Plenty of the same story here on the forums too. So, in the immortal words of Han Solo, don't get cocky.
Enjoy.
Paul
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 47,645
Oh, and might as well do the usual helpful steps in the process too.
With the old ones off, clean off any old rust or scale from the mounting surfaces where the bushing slips on. Then lube them up good with anything from liquid hand soap (a very popular method), to anti-seize, to just grease, to the sticky silicone stuff that the bushing manufacturers sell.
Officially, petroleum based lubes are not compatible with the polyurethane bushings. But I've never had any deterioration from using them together myself. Just wanted to let you know though, in case you have other options and don't have to use petroleum.
Paul
With the old ones off, clean off any old rust or scale from the mounting surfaces where the bushing slips on. Then lube them up good with anything from liquid hand soap (a very popular method), to anti-seize, to just grease, to the sticky silicone stuff that the bushing manufacturers sell.
Officially, petroleum based lubes are not compatible with the polyurethane bushings. But I've never had any deterioration from using them together myself. Just wanted to let you know though, in case you have other options and don't have to use petroleum.
Paul
Hi, you will see a major improvement when you get some caster in there. I would use a magnetic protractor as rusty truck said. Check before and after measurement and write it all down. You may not need to go back to the alignment rack, but you will want to check the toe in when you are done. I would learn how to check toe on a level slab, and write down the toe in before and after you change the bushings. Toe is the only front end adjustment that is easy to adjust. Your camber is fine.
When you are installing the new c bushings a tip is to get some longer cap bolts to evenly draw the cap in because the outer cap is hard to get started with the standard bolts. Good luck
When you are installing the new c bushings a tip is to get some longer cap bolts to evenly draw the cap in because the outer cap is hard to get started with the standard bolts. Good luck
Hey Ron, Just wanted to say you give a lot of good advice on here. I grew up in a family of mechanics and my Dad owned a service station and your comments are always in laymen's terms and easy to understand. Ken
EarlybroncoHI
New Member
So here’s the update, steering is feeling a lot better.. still not perfect but I’m pretty happy it’s not a deathly ride lol..
Yesterday I changed the c-bushings, the old ones were obviously Rancho and had some pretty good wear on the inside. Couldn’t tell what degree they were. The radius arm bushings on one side were pretty bad as well.. also the shocks were totally dead.. so I replaced them with the only thing the auto shop had (Rancho 9000’s)
Still a little sceptical about how the steering stabilizer is mounted.. drove it with it on and with it off.. I think it feels a little better with it on. So for now I’m gonna leave it.. going back to the parts store to get the rear shocks now.
I guess the next step is take it back to Check alignment
Yesterday I changed the c-bushings, the old ones were obviously Rancho and had some pretty good wear on the inside. Couldn’t tell what degree they were. The radius arm bushings on one side were pretty bad as well.. also the shocks were totally dead.. so I replaced them with the only thing the auto shop had (Rancho 9000’s)
Still a little sceptical about how the steering stabilizer is mounted.. drove it with it on and with it off.. I think it feels a little better with it on. So for now I’m gonna leave it.. going back to the parts store to get the rear shocks now.
I guess the next step is take it back to Check alignment
