Ring gear bolts, lock washer or no lock washer?

[Mikes Early Bronco]

So I’ve noticed that the ring gear bolts in my Dana 44 did not have lock washers from the factory. When I ordered a set they came with lock washers. I decided to try tightening with, and without the lock washers. When torquing the bolts without the lock washers I have a good accurate torque reading and sure feel of 55-60lbs. When torquing the bolts with the lock washers I was chasing the torque reading because, at 50 lbs the washers started to spread. I did this because I remember conversation at a local 4x4 shop, the guy said they don’t use lock washers anymore, just locktite. I can understand why. I was just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the issue.

Second thought while writing this. Do they make something along the lines of an Izzy Bridge Lock for an ARB? With proper clearance, I guess they’re easy enough to make, right?

Just a few thoughts while bored. Have a great week.

 

[okie4570]

I've never used lock washers on any ring gear of any kind. Just lok-tite and proper torque

 

[Yeller]

^^^^^^ this is correct.

 

[jamesroney]

So I’ve noticed that the ring gear bolts in my Dana 44 did not have lock washers from the factory. When I ordered a set they came with lock washers. I decided to try tightening with, and without the lock washers. When torquing the bolts without the lock washers I have a good accurate torque reading and sure feel of 55-60lbs. When torquing the bolts with the lock washers I was chasing the torque reading because, at 50 lbs the washers started to spread. I did this because I remember conversation at a local 4x4 shop, the guy said they don’t use lock washers anymore, just locktite. I can understand why. I was just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the issue.

Second thought while writing this. Do they make something along the lines of an Izzy Bridge Lock for an ARB? With proper clearance, I guess they’re easy enough to make, right?

Just a few thoughts while bored. Have a great week.

I posted on this thread. The answer is there. Yes on loctite, no on lock washers, never seen a bridge lock that would fit an ARB.

Tab washers were standard equipment on OEM Dana 44 in the Salisbury 4H configuration up to 1965.


Thread 'Dana 30 Carnage; What Happened?'
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/dana-30-carnage-what-happened.323551/

 

[jeffncs]

Red Loctite, no lock washers! Lock washers can break sending grade 8 steel chunks into your shiny new R+P.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

I posted on this thread. The answer is there. Yes on loctite, no on lock washers, never seen a bridge lock that would fit an ARB.

Tab washers were standard equipment on OEM Dana 44 in the Salisbury 4H configuration up to 1965.


Thread 'Dana 30 Carnage; What Happened?'
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/dana-30-carnage-what-happened.323551/

James, thank you buddy. You also answered another question of mine in the post regarding the different bolt heads. I was having a hard time finding the 11/16 bolt heads. That’s a new thread too. Not sure how I missed it. The search option hasn’t been working well for me lately.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

Red Loctite, no lock washers! Lock washers can break sending grade 8 steel chunks into your shiny new R+P.

Thanks Jeff. When I opened this thing it was strange, everything was in place except the slinger was mangled and exploded everywhere. Just the slinger though.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

I've never used lock washers on any ring gear of any kind. Just lok-tite and proper torque

Thanks okie. The jury’s out. This is the route I’m going for now on. Those lock washers just didn’t seem right at all.

 

[nvrstuk]

Red locktite won't hold!

Not joking.

I can list a half dozen guys in the past 2 years that have had red locktite let loose. This is when the holes and bolt threads were prepped properly.

9" ring gears seem to be the worst and probably because of the amount of tooth contact and that creates heat. Excessive heat cycling.

Had a friend who 3 or 4 yrs ago had large west coast Bronco house install a blown R&P at an event. They used locktite & did it right and he just had the bolts back out in Jan. It is MUCH more common than most believe.

Best way is to drill and wire.

I believe ARB has come out with a way to use locking tabs on their carrier but I can't say for sure.

 

[Tiko433]

Dam
Something else to keep be awake at night
I have not even thought of this.

 

[Yeller]

The issue typically is with the fronts the rotational harmonics work the bolts loose. On the racers I work on we use tab locks “Izzy Locks” or safety wire on ARB’s. ARP makes drilled bolts for safety wire. 9” are the worst about it. But have seen all of them work loose. The issue with lock tight is if everything is not 10000% clean it will not hold. Over torquing the bolts in engineering word is tabu, but also effective until the thresh hold is exceeded and the bolt breaks. But for 90% of users lock tight and proper torque works fine.

 

[nvrstuk]

I was just amazed at the number of failures I've witnessed including myself (2x). Once on my D44 20 yrs ago- before I'd ever heard of it happening. Once on a 9".

 

[Broncobowsher]

You were witnessing the lock washer failing as you tightened it, Big clue that they are not a good idea.

I thought I recently heard of a new loctite. Red and blue have been around forever, but I remember looking several years ago and there were a lot of speciality loctite versions that nobody ever looks for. On top of that most people (even a lot of professionals) don't do the prep work correctly for the loctite. New does not equal clean. A spritz of brake clean does not equal clean.

I remember 20 years ago watching bone stock super duty trucks spitting out ring gear bolts. So not just an aftermarket thing.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

Red locktite won't hold!

Not joking.

I can list a half dozen guys in the past 2 years that have had red locktite let loose. This is when the holes and bolt threads were prepped properly.

9" ring gears seem to be the worst and probably because of the amount of tooth contact and that creates heat. Excessive heat cycling.

Had a friend who 3 or 4 yrs ago had large west coast Bronco house install a blown R&P at an event. They used locktite & did it right and he just had the bolts back out in Jan. It is MUCH more common than most believe.

Best way is to drill and wire.

I believe ARB has come out with a way to use locking tabs on their carrier but I can't say for sure.

Thanks Brian! I saw your post regarding safety wire. I still have my equipment from years ago when I was racing motorcycles. That might be me next option. Did you ever find pre drilled bolts or did you drill your own?

Edit: I just saw Yeller’s reply on pre drilled bolts.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

Dam
Something else to keep be awake at night
I have not even thought of this.

Haha. Glad I’m not the only one that loses sleep over this stuff.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

The issue typically is with the fronts the rotational harmonics work the bolts loose. On the racers I work on we use tab locks “Izzy Locks” or safety wire on ARB’s. ARP makes drilled bolts for safety wire. 9” are the worst about it. But have seen all of them work loose. The issue with lock tight is if everything is not 10000% clean it will not hold. Over torquing the bolts in engineering word is tabu, but also effective until the thresh hold is exceeded and the bolt breaks. But for 90% of users lock tight and proper torque works fine.

Thanks Yeller! I didn’t know ARP made the pre drilled bolts. Figures earlier this morning I ordered a set of Dana Spicer factory bolts to drill. Maybe I’ll order the ARPs to save some headache drilling a hardened bolt.

 

[Yeller]

Thanks Yeller! I didn’t know ARP made the pre drilled bolts. Figures earlier this morning I ordered a set of Dana Spicer factory bolts to drill. Maybe I’ll order the ARPs to save some headache drilling a hardened bolt.

drilling bolts sucks LOL but sticker shock from ARP is crazy.

 

[okie4570]

I was just amazed at the number of failures I've witnessed including myself (2x). Once on my D44 20 yrs ago- before I'd ever heard of it happening. Once on a 9".

I've never seen one that I've rebuilt come back apart. Dana 44, 30, 9 inch, sterling 10.5". I'm going to have to give you a proficiency test on thread prep/cleaning and torque wrench usuage, and lok-tite squirtage.......

Kidding of course.

 

[Mikes Early Bronco]

You were witnessing the lock washer failing as you tightened it, Big clue that they are not a good idea.

I thought I recently heard of a new loctite. Red and blue have been around forever, but I remember looking several years ago and there were a lot of speciality loctite versions that nobody ever looks for. On top of that most people (even a lot of professionals) don't do the prep work correctly for the loctite. New does not equal clean. A spritz of brake clean does not equal clean.

I remember 20 years ago watching bone stock super duty trucks spitting out ring gear bolts. So not just an aftermarket thing.

Thanks Broncobowsher. At the end of this I hope I’ve covered my bases enough to not have to deal with a malfunction, due to my own negligence. During my first round I did sit the ring gear in the parts cleaner for a few hours, however, I did not properly prep the bolts themselves. I rushed to get the bolts in before the ring gear began to cool and I failed to clean the bolts... Take two . This time I’m going to safety wire them also.

 

[nvrstuk]

I use 100% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning. BrakeKleen is so full of cancer cancer and Parkinson's causing $&*# that I seldom use it-then outside with gloves & upwind only.
Compressed air dries alcohol quickly.

ARP sticker shock is right. Definitely cheaper than a rebuild but not by much! lol