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Three or four link rear suspension

377

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
372
Loc.
The Bluegrass State
I am looking at reworking my rear suspension. My question is what is better three or four link rear suspension? I am not doing any extreme rock crawling but, may run down an occasional slew of rock or come across a logging/USFS trail that is in ill repair. I want something that has decent highway manners . I have looked at Duffs four link which looks really nice but sounds like it might not be good for the highway. I have been looking at Ruff Stuffs three link kit. Lastly, I see guys posting drawings of how they are setting up their rear suspensions. I am by no means geometrically inclined. Is there a rules of thumb in setting up a link type suspension? Thank you in advance for your help. I apologize for my "generic" question I really don't know enough about this stuff to ask an educated question.

377
 

Digger556

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
793
I am looking at reworking my rear suspension. My question is what is better three or four link rear suspension? I am not doing any extreme rock crawling but, may run down an occasional slew of rock or come across a logging/USFS trail that is in ill repair. I want something that has decent highway manners . I have looked at Duffs four link which looks really nice but sounds like it might not be good for the highway. I have been looking at Ruff Stuffs three link kit. Lastly, I see guys posting drawings of how they are setting up their rear suspensions. I am by no means geometrically inclined. Is there a rules of thumb in setting up a link type suspension? Thank you in advance for your help. I apologize for my "generic" question I really don't know enough about this stuff to ask an educated question.

377

Tough decisions. Without understanding everything, it is easy to mess up. The online calculators help, but honestly a traditional 4-link is not good for ride quality AND handling. You can have one, but not the other. I'm sure someone will be along to argue that point, but have you ever see a modern OE vehicle suspension running a triangulated 4-link?

Your two best options for a linked suspension are a 4-link w/ trackbar. (like a Jeep TJ or JK) OR a 3-link using radius arms and trackbar or torque arm and track bar. The key ingredient is the trackbar. It allows you to divorce lateral and longitudinal forces in your links, which then allows you to optimize bushings rates for each. (In the case of the torque arm, you can customize torque reaction rates as well)

Let me explain quick. With a track bar, one link reacts all lateral loads (cornering). The other links, running length-wise with the truck, react the thrust loads from acceleration and braking. They also transfer shock and vibrations when the wheel encounters pot holes, bridge seams, rocks and ruts. It would stand to reason that if you want a comfortable ride, you want softer bushing in your longitudinal links. But you also want responsive handling, which you can get by putting stiffer joints or bushings in your track bar.

With a traditional triangulated 4-link, the links responsible for locating the axle fore/aft are the same ones that located laterally. SO if you put soft bushing in for ride quality, you will lose handling response. If you use rod ends for crisp handling, they will transfer lots of NVH (noise, vibration, harshness)

RULES OF THUMB:
How much energy and brain power do you want to expel? I could dive really deep into this, but it would require backing up and taking a look at the vehicle as a whole. Lets just start by saying that even though a company has a good reputation or sells lots of product, that they know what they are doing. There are many brands of lifts, not limited to Broncos by any means, that are utterly laughed at by true dynamics engineers and in some cases produce dangerous handling characteristics.

But enough doom and gloom.;D

Rules: (and these are very general)
1) Aim to have a higher roll center in the rear than the front.
2) the rear should have a higher ride frequency than the front. How much higher depends on speed/wheelbase etc.
3) the rear should have a lower roll-rate than the front.
4) Aim for reasonable anti-squat, but don't obsess about it. There is no magic number and what you end up with is usually a by-product of the above. Higher #s produce better launches, if you like drag racing, lower allows the axle to better follow the terrain.
 

broncoitis

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
4,449
I don't know much about this stuff either but why would you need a tracbar with a 4 Link? Doesn't the 4 Link naturally replace the tracbar??? Are you referring to a swaybar instead? Just curious! ;D
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Mar 27, 2012
Messages
6,038
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Rogers County Oklahoma
I have differing opinions than Digger556 but his engineering concepts are sound, and he's right, to fully get into it would littterally fill a book. IMO a traditional 4 link without a track bar makes for a more rounded vehicle but can have some comprimises in on the street depending on the set up. But for pure street handling he is 100% right, been proven that way for 50 years.

Broncoitis: he is refering to a track bar, like on a later model Ram pick up, camaro, mustang, Heep TJ, JK and others, they all have a track bar of one form or another.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,950
For what you describe, leaf springs may be the best option.

Few other questions. How much lift and how big of a tire are you planning on?

Handling and highway manors, try to keep the springs and shocks as close to the tires as possible. The more inboard you go the flexier it gets and the handling goes away (with the same springs and shocks).
 

Digger556

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
793
I have differing opinions than Digger556 but his engineering concepts are sound, and he's right, to fully get into it would littterally fill a book. IMO a traditional 4 link without a track bar makes for a more rounded vehicle but can have some comprimises in on the street depending on the set up. But for pure street handling he is 100% right, been proven that way for 50 years.

Broncoitis: he is refering to a track bar, like on a later model Ram pick up, camaro, mustang, Heep TJ, JK and others, they all have a track bar of one form or another.

Agreed. There are reasons you see triangulated 4-links on race trucks, and not on street vehicles. You have to decide as the owner which end of the spectrum you are closer to.
 

NYLES

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
9,846
Saw a youtube clip of Duffs in action on a 90 degree corner ...see if you can find it, looked pretty darn stable to me.
 

01Dudley

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
974
Loc.
Knoxville
Nyles the clip you saw was of our new 3.5" 4-link system and yes it is more stable than our 5.5" 4-link. I would suggest adding a aftermarket rear sway bar with our 4-link if your going to drive on the highway. Also 1 thing to keep in mind is when 4-linking something is the exhaust. Example our upper triangulated bars run pretty much where the dual exhaust would run. You gotta get pretty creative with the exhaust.
 

Bukin 67

Bronco Abuser
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
2,262
With your set-up as it is compared to going with a 4 link, I don't think you would be sacrificing the ride on the street that much compared to what you would gain on the trail. Just my opinion though. A lot would depend on the shocks you go with. I would with go with a 4 link in combination with an adjustable sway bar if you stay with the 3.5 lift and 37's, and get a kit like Duff's that's already engineered specifically for your Bronco.
 

NYLES

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
9,846
Nyles the clip you saw was of our new 3.5" 4-link system and yes it is more stable than our 5.5" 4-link. I would suggest adding a aftermarket rear sway bar with our 4-link if your going to drive on the highway. Also 1 thing to keep in mind is when 4-linking something is the exhaust. Example our upper triangulated bars run pretty much where the dual exhaust would run. You gotta get pretty creative with the exhaust.

You know I want it! Would like see some bronco outer frame headers would be awsome hard enough to get it all to fit now!
 
OP
OP
3

377

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
372
Loc.
The Bluegrass State
Guys, I really appreciate your answers. Digger your thread on Colorado Classic Broncos is what really got me looking into the three link option. Bukin , I couldn't agree more with buying a kit that all the homework has already been done for you. Nyles, I found the video on YouTube , I am glad to know it is of the new 3.5 four link. I read I think on James Duff's website where they were doing a new kit. James Duff is the first place I bought an eb part from, since then they have always been great to deal with. My only wish and I know it's a stupid one is I wish their 4 link kit was available in a color other then their blue. My rig is burnt orange and with blue parts it reminds me of the Denver Broncos, I for no love for those guys! Thanks again guys your answers as always they were very helpful.

377
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Mar 27, 2012
Messages
6,038
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
Call and ask about the color, they are starting to offer some parts unfinished, do to requests like yours. On the flip side, their powder coat makes a nice primer for your color of choice.
 

NYLES

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
9,846
that baked on blue is a excellent primer, as noted exhaust is gonna be interesting
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Mar 27, 2012
Messages
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Rogers County Oklahoma
that baked on blue is a excellent primer, as noted exhaust is gonna be interesting

Hehehe there's a reason i don't have a bronco frame..... and its still tough.... On one of my builds I had 50 hours in getting the exhaust routed:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: customer was glad I "volunteered"....... He had to bring me dinner every night until it was done;D;D
 

NYLES

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
9,846
if i do this looks like gonna go back to shorty headers then 2 into 1 and exit in front of passenger rear tire?

i dunno but Im goin 4 link by OCBR
 
OP
OP
3

377

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
372
Loc.
The Bluegrass State
I saw a post where they were offering the radius arms unfinished but, they made it sound like it was kind of a special thing. I guess the Duff Blue as a primer is an option. I'd be happy if they could do them in their silver vein powder coat. I really like the radius arms in that finish. Nyles the 2 into 1 exit before the passengers tire is the way to go in my opinion. I didn't buy a kit for mine but it is a 2 into 1 and the rear area of the frame is wide open as far as mounting surfaces go. Thanks again!
 

Lmfp

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
1,496
Loc.
Lake Charles, LA
I did a semi fenderwell exit using using mustang shorties. now with my setup im routing the exhaust so close to the body im actually using header wrap on the whole thing. tons of room to work with though.
 
OP
OP
3

377

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
372
Loc.
The Bluegrass State
Nyles,
I got about a foot of snow and 18 degrees outside so no pics tonight. Tomorrow we are having a heat wave of the mid to high 30s with possibly another six inches to a foot of new snow between now and then. I'll be more then happy to climb under there and try to get some pictures for you. Do you want headers to end or just the exhaust pipe layout?
377
 
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