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New to me 351W - Want to pep it up a bit!

Timmy390

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Jan 1, 2011
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It has a 2.5 SL lift and 33" tires. It also has stock 3.50 gearing.

problem = found........^^^^^^^ Been in your shoes.......

Stock gears and 33's is going to make any engine feel like a slug. 400HP or not it's not going to get out of it's own way on a hill or windy day.

You need gears before you spend 4K plus on an engine crate or not.

I suggest 4.11's or maybe 4.30's. It will feel like you gained 100 plus HP and will put the fun factor into your rig.

Tim
 
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MidwestTexan

MidwestTexan

Jr. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
92
Tim,

That makes sense and I think I'll go ahead and drop the front and rear and take them in. With the ZF-5, do you think I could get away with 4.11's? I'd really like to put the 351w in as well. I'd like to go ahead and upgrade it to a roller cam and lifters while I have it out. Is there a cam that will work well with my stock setup and will also work if I decide to upgrade heads in the future?
 

laserfish

Jr. Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
123
I have the 4:11's and 33's, 302 and backed with an NV3550. Works great. If you are thinking of moving to 35's, go with the 4:30 gears. You will be super pleased. After getting your gearing straight, then make your decisions.
 

Timmy390

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Gears are a personal choice IMO. It's like what you find attractive. Some things we can all agree on and others are individual likes. Like I'm a sucker for a redhead. If only my wife would let me bring another one home LOL

My combo of 351W, 33's and 4.11's with stock 3 speed RIPS on the street. 70 MPH quick and I mash the gas and she goes.....BUT that's IMO as to how my brick of a bronco drives. Now if you compare the Bronco to my Shelby, the Bronco is a super slug.....

What gets most people about gears is they don't like the RPM's lower gears produce. Modern cars and trucks cruse around at 1800 RPM on the highways doing 75 plus. They can do this because it's all about the gearing and power band (engine, trans and differential) working together.

I turn 2800 ish a 65/70 with my stock 3 speed and that's right in the torque band of my cam so my rig is peppy.

4.11's and 32-33's is a nice combo BUT there are more things to consider such as cam torque band and trans gears.

You might want to start a new thread to get input from those running a ZF-5 speed. I seem to recall the issue with all the 5 speed options is 5th gear. It's high and in hilly/windy conditions can lug......you can fix this with lower gears but that will make 1st REALLY low which you may like if off roading or may hate if on the street. It's all about what you like and want.

If you plan to do the gears yourself, I suggest trying different sets in the rear only (do not use 4 wheel drive while doing this). Give 4.11's a try and then try 4.30's or even lower. That way you get what you like vs. what someone suggests.

Tim
 

68ford

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Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
Although the 3.50 gears are making you sluggish off the start, there is NEVER any thing wrong with wanting 400hp ;D
This day in age 100 HP per 1000 pounds only makes you a little quick. My bronco has about 325 hp and I totally understand wanting around 400 regardless of what or where your driving.

Definitely build a Windsor. The 1/2 in stroke always make about 100 more foot pounds of torque. Don't bother with a short stroke 302
 

Broncobowsher

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Jun 4, 2002
Messages
34,949
As mentioned, gearing is your biggest problem right now. The only thing those 3.50 gears and 33s are good for is sailing down a flat freeway.

Proper gearing will be needed or else all the motor you can get will still be a dog and losing the stop light race to a Saturn. You might take them on the top end, but gearing and torque are what you need to get off the line.
 

bronconut73

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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
Although the 3.50 gears are making you sluggish off the start, there is NEVER any thing wrong with wanting 400hp ;D
This day in age 100 HP per 1000 pounds only makes you a little quick. My bronco has about 325 hp and I totally understand wanting around 400 regardless of what or where your driving.

Definitely build a Windsor. The 1/2 in stroke always make about 100 more foot pounds of torque. Don't bother with a short stroke 302




What '68 Ford says is pretty similar to what my old man told me when I was building my Windsor.

I had 4.11's with 33's for awhile. I thought it would be too low of gearing for the highway. But you really do get used to blasting along at 3,200 rpm to go about 70 mph.
I have since gone to 35's (Thank you Franko) and now, maybe it's 3,000 rpm to go about 70 mph. Didn't make any difference in gas mileage on the highway but the 4.11's definitely helped the 33's get a little better mileage in town though. And the lower gearing made it feel like it did when it only had 30's on it back in the early 80's. It makes a night and day difference off the line.
Now with 35's I really wish I had gone with 4.56's. But I am now wanting to go with an overdrive tranny which will require even lower axle gearing for the overdrive gear to be usable.

And like Tommy said, just do the rear differential at first and see if you like the results. Maybe even take a shot at your own rear gears. The 9" differential is the easiest gear swap you can do.

Anyway, good luck. Lots of good info here.

But generally speaking.

Stock tranny and 33's go with 4.11's.

Overdrive tranny and 33's go with 4.56's.

Older Ford AOD with .69 to 1 overdrive and 33's go with 4.88's.

And just increase gearing incrementally a long with tire size....
 

AZ69EB

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
680
I had a ZF, EFI 302, 33” tires with 3.50 gears. The motor was strong with GT40 heads and explorer intake. The 5th gear was useless. I re-geared to 4.88’s. I was running about 73 / 75 mph at about 3000 rpm’s. My plan was to go with 35” tires which would of put me at about 2600 or so rpm’s at 73 / 75 mph.

This combination was great on flat ground or not pulling anything. A slight hill would make you drop into 4th gear to keep the speed up. If it was a steep hill, I would have to drop to 3rd gear. Now the motor is screaming to keep up the speed. I would run it up to 5K plus rpm’s to keep up with traffic.

The 4.56 gears would of been perfect with 33” tires. But, 200 more horsepower would of made it a great Bronco with either the 4.56 or 4.88 gears. Good luck.
 

DirtDonk

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And never feel bad about being beat in a lifted truck with big tires, by a small more sporty car even with a much smaller engine.
Especially if that Saturn happened to be a 2dr SC with the twin-cam engine. Those can really rip if they're running right!

Paul
 

68ford

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And never feel bad about being beat in a lifted truck with big tires, by a small more sporty car even with a much smaller engine.
Especially if that Saturn happened to be a 2dr SC with the twin-cam engine. Those can really rip if they're running right!

Paul

But instead being beat, wouldnt giving a beating be that much more enjoyable? :cool:
 

rjrobin2002

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Remember your factory Bronco engine had 140hp, so a 300hp engine will feel scary.
 

68ford

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I'd like to stay at or below $4k. If I can't get what I want for that, I may just by a new BP 306 w/ EFI for $5500. The warranty is a nice benefit. If you have some thoughts I'm all ears!

So how much from blue print would a 351 be that is basically the same as the 306 with efi for 5500? I would never buy a stock stroke engine again after building both a 302 and a SBF438. The 3in stroke is just too short and ends up la king in torque. Usually a 347 is only a little more than the same engine but stock stroke. The 1/2 in of stroke is usually good for 75 to a 100 ft lb of torque and at a lower RPM.
 

pcf_mark

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Jun 11, 2010
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I think your heads have 69 cc chambers. If you mill the factory heads .030 you could pick up .7 in compression ratio. Mill the intake the same so they line up. Any machine shop can do that for you. But to also use a decent cam you will need new retainers and springs. Which may also require machining.Since I am spending you money I would just buy a set of aftermarket heads for under $1300. These have 58-60 cc chambers giving you a boost in compression and excellent ports to make good torque and power. Edelbrock e-street is a clear winner in torque which will move a heavy truck and work with a close to stock torque converter.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1302-six-budget-ford-heads-that-work/

Then you can put a decent cam in it. Roller cams can tolerate quick acting valve movements I would go with plenty of lift (.500) and the smallest duration (210 degrees) to give you mountains of torque but still make power at 5k. Sure gears will help but 350 hp sure helps a lot too. All this w/o taking the engine out or going into the short block - count me in. Otherwise you need a blower!
 
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MidwestTexan

MidwestTexan

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So how much from blue print would a 351 be that is basically the same as the 306 with efi for 5500? I would never buy a stock stroke engine again after building both a 302 and a SBF438. The 3in stroke is just too short and ends up la king in torque. Usually a 347 is only a little more than the same engine but stock stroke. The 1/2 in of stroke is usually good for 75 to a 100 ft lb of torque and at a lower RPM.

Blueprint only offers a 408 now which is $7,200.00
https://blueprintengines.com/collec...lock-ford-longblock-fuel-injection-bpf4088ctf

ATK offers a 351 with EFI for $6,500
https://www.high-performance-engines.com/ford-351W-complete-engine-390hp-p/hp11c-efi.htm

I'll have another $150 or so in a rear oil pan for both as well...
 

EFI Guy

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DirtDonk

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Is that where those come from? Looks like I gotta' get me one of them too!

Paul
 
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