New to me 351W - Want to pep it up a bit!

[MidwestTexan]

I purchased a 90' 351W that was in a F350. I was able to drive it prior to him pulling it which it drove well. It has factory EFI, which I don't think I'll be able to use. I have a 600 cfm carb that I'll use until I decide if I want to go EFI or not. Would the below parts get me to around 400HP and 400TQ?
If not, or if there is a more cost effective way I'm all ears. The total cost plus gaskets, bolts, timing chain, etc is around $2,500. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas!

Lunati Voodoo Cam
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10350701

Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,000-5,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 213
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 219
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 213 int./219 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 256
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 262
Advertised Duration: 256 int./262 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.483 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.499 in.

Trick Flow® Roller Rocker Arms
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51400510

Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads 5025
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-5025

Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake Manifolds 7581
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7581

 

[68ford]

Sounds like a good start for budget reliable power. I personally would go a little aggressive on the cam. If you aren't super worried about a copy idle, get a cam with 110 lobe separation, which will increase mid-range torque. That cam you listed is a 112 lobe sep. I would also go a little more valve lift if the springs on those heads allows. .525 to .550 ish.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I think you will be lacking enough compression. Pretty sure that vintage 351 in the F350 was only 8.3:1 compression compared to the F150/Bronco version at 8.8:1 with the difference being the dish in the pistons. The Edelbrock heads I think are a slightly smaller chamber, but not that different. You will be lacking in the 400/400 targets.

My beer bottle calculator says a solid 300 HP, maybe 325 and mid 300s torque. Should run good and run on regular gas.

 

[AZ69EB]

Ditto what 68Ford said. 110 Incase you decide on ego down the road. Also, For a few bucks more you can pick up a set of Trickflows or AFR heads bare or complete. Or pick up a used set and rebuild them. They will flow better.

Another option, I picked up a nice set of CNC ported TW170’s from a builder that a customer left and didn’t pay him for. $800 and ported to Flow like the newer 190 heads.

Go for it and Merry Christmas

 

[ENDLIFE]

400 is easily achievable with a 351W just as it is with a 302W. I did it with my 302, I made the horrid mistake of not having my A9L re-mapped, and my engine is stuck until I get it done. I somewhat followed a recipe from Car Craft Magazine. Excellent information!

 

[ENDLIFE]

Also, if you can find a shop the does extrude honing, it will be the best money you will spend on your engine, and you will not regret it.

 

[Cortez]

Checkout the Edlebrock Power Package top end kit. I think engine masters did a video installing it and got huge gains on a junkyard 351w.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, if I wanted that kind of power I would see what the local Saturday night stock car guys are running.
Here is an example. By our rule book we run a 350 Chevy, 10:1 compression, any factory gm 2 barrel intake, and Corvette 2 1/2" Rams horn exhaust going into a 3" pipe.
Any cam, roller rockers, stock gm heads. Flat top pistons.
We Dyno at 375 hp. We run cam 2 race fuel. The engine will run on premium gas. The engines hold up fine for @ 3 years. We change comp cam valve springs every year.
The only real wear is the valves get hammered. Our engines cost @ $6000.
If you find some guys running 351 Ford's they will give you great advice.
As mentioned, more compression. Head work, good valve train, light retainers, roller rockers. Think about a gear drive.
Good luck

 

[Timmy390]

Don't get caught up on HP numbers. It's torque you want. Torque moves things......

Agree with 68Frord, "your going to need bigger cam"

Broncobowsher is correct on the compression. My 96 351W from a E350 van was 8.8:1 My engine with EFI was rated at 235HP and lots of torque (don't recall of the top of my head.

You can make the EFI work. There are WAYS to do this. I did it and if I can anyone can. In a nutshell you need a 351W lower from a lighting (which is aluminum) or the marine version (which is cast iron) like I'm running. Explorer upper and you can run the speed density EFI off the truck OR convert it to mass air. You just need to get the pin outs (find them on line) and then rewire what's needed for mass air.

Tim

 

[sykanr0ng]

Don't get caught up on HP numbers. It's torque you want. Torque moves things......

You can make the EFI work. There are WAYS to do this. I did it and if I can anyone can. In a nutshell you need a 351W lower from a lighting (which is aluminum) or the marine version (which is cast iron) like I'm running. Explorer upper and you can run the speed density EFI off the truck OR convert it to mass air. You just need to get the pin outs (find them on line) and then rewire what's needed for mass air.

Tim

Or since you already have many of the Explorer EFI parts there you could use the Explorer OBD2 EFI and avoid looking for the scarce older ECM.
EFI Guy has done several of these.

 

[Timmy390]

Or since you already have many of the Explorer EFI parts there you could use the Explorer OBD2 EFI and avoid looking for the scarce older ECM.
EFI Guy has done several of these.

True. I converted what I had as the speed density for 96 was just a few wires off from 95 mustang EFI. I was able to keep the complete ignition system and all the stock van sensors. Just picked up a 95 Stang ECM and EFIGuy gave it a once-over. It was his advice that pit me on the conversion path.

If I had it to do over I think I would still have gone the way I did but I think I would have gotten the explorer front dress vs. making the van stuff work.

Tim

 

[MidwestTexan]

Thanks for the advice fellas! I'll look for another cam as mentioned above. If I go with the 110 lob and a little more lift, will it sound real lurchy? I just don't want it to sound like a Harley... I mean if it had a little lope I wouldn't mind that, I just don't like a lot of it. I think I may upgrade to a roller cam and lifters while I'm at it.

Also, can I use the serp setup that's on there now?

 

[68ford]

If your thinking efi in the future you maybwant to stay 112 lobe sep. Makes more vacuum at idle sonefi is easier to tune. 110 would not lope that much as long as you stay in the duration area you are. 110 makes more mid-range due to scavenging affect caused by the overlap. Tight lobe sep is a circle track thing, but more "high performance" series cams seem to be using it more and more mines a 108 lobe sep iky mega 270 Pretty lopy, but smooths out before stock converter grabs and pulls hard off the line considering it sounds real lopy.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BrT9vAEgwyB/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1pulj2or2gmtk
Mines a 302, short stroke motors always seem lopier that longer stroke engines
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRwrXCHFh-f/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=92dvjahnh0hh

 

[Apogee]

Thanks for the advice fellas! I'll look for another cam as mentioned above. If I go with the 110 lob and a little more lift, will it sound real lurchy? I just don't want it to sound like a Harley... I mean if it had a little lope I wouldn't mind that, I just don't like a lot of it. I think I may upgrade to a roller cam and lifters while I'm at it.

Also, can I use the serp setup that's on there now?

If you convert over to a roller cam, then you can move to a higher lift and longer duration at .05" since you can run steeper ramps without wiping out the cam like you would with a flat tappet setup, giving you more HP/torque while maintaining a respectable vacuum level at idle. Vacuum can be very important if you intend to run EFI or vacuum accessories such as vacuum power assisted brakes.

 

[pcf_mark]

As was pointed out the low compression is going to hurt you. You start getting into a more serious cam to make 400 hp with that low compression it is going to be soft down low and little bit of a pain in the butt to tune requiring a lot of initial timing to give throttle response. I would look at any head that had a small chamber to start and work from that. If you can get 9.5 - 10:1 it would greatly improve the driveability. Can you mill the heads .030 and use a thin head gasket? That would be a cheap way to get compression. The aftermarket heads look like they are have the same 58-62 cc chambers which I think match what you have now.

Unless I missed it you did not state your transmission. If you have a stick you can get by on something with a 110 degree lobe separation but on an auto that is going to tough to live with. Either way I would go with 112-114 lobe sep, 210 -220 duration, .500-.525 lift. If it was my money I would get the compression up first then do a retro fit roller - that will get 400/400 and super nice driveablity. 112 lobe, 210 duration, .550 lift would be wicked in a roller and idle at 800 all day long with 14" vacuum.

 

[MidwestTexan]

I'm putting in a ZF-5 tranny.

With all the upgrades I'm getting pretty close to the cost of a crate motor which will have all brand new parts and a warranty... I was hoping to keep this build to around $4k (including the cost of the engine $500). If anyone has links to a good roller cam, heads, etc thought would get me close to the HP/TQ specs I'd like to achieve, I would sure appreciate it. I'll keep looking to and post links to get y'alls thoughts. I'm new to engines in general and have never attempted this although I'm a DIY'er and think this is the best way to learn. I sure appreciate the help so far, it's much appreciated!

 

[Timmy390]

I like building my own stuff but that's just me.

Can you sell the current engine and maybe start with a roller block? That way you would be ahead in the cam and valve train department as in reuse the cam and lifters. The truck roller cam is the same as the explorer cam and it works really well in the Bronco. I ran it for a while. Long story as to why I changed but it had nothing to do with the performance of that cam.

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry if I missed it MidwestTexan, but what is it you're wanting out of your Bronco?
In other words, what was your decision that you wanted 400/400 based on?

Just wondering if the power numbers were etched in stone, or if some relative performance results (not on paper, but on the road) were what you were wanting to achieve.
If you're desert racing or dune jumping, or just stoplight racing and have lower gearing, more power is great!
If this Bronco is a weekend trail/hunting rig, or a take the kids to the local ice cream store rig, you might want something completely different.

You going to drive it, or race it, or show it?
And how much lift and what size tires? Have you driven the Bronco yet as it is, or are you building it up along with the engine?
Just curious, since now that the engine is getting near the cost of a crate motor as you said, maybe this is a good time for that other discussion.

Good luck with the project either way!

Paul

 

[MidwestTexan]

I have a 70' with a stock 302 although it does have headers and an Edelbrock 289 intake with 3 on the tree. It has a 2.5 SL lift and 33" tires. It also has stock 3.50 gearing. I've been driving it for about a year and while it's a good and reliable engine, I'm looking for something that when I want to get on it, it'll move! For example, when I have to floor it just to keep up with a 1994 Saturn at the stop light, it's a bit embarrassing. I primarily use it to tool around with the kids, run to the store and we will take it down to the inlaws (2 hr trip) every once in a while.

I don't plan on racing it or showing it. I'd just like something that would keep up/out run a modern V8 vehicle from a stoplight if that makes sense.

I'm in the process of putting a 2" body lift on and will add the ZF tranny. I also plan on changing it to 4.10 gears.

Again, I'm not stuck on HP/TQ, I just threw out those numbers as I feel that's what I would need to accomplish my goal. I could be completely off which is why I'm wanting as much advice/constructive criticism from y'all as I can get. I'm a complete noob when it comes to engine building and what works with what to achieve said results.

Thanks again guys, I really do appreciate the help!

 

[MidwestTexan]

And maybe something like the Blueprint 306 bronco edition would give me what I want. It's pretty reasonable at $5500 and comes with EFI.

https://blueprintengines.com/collec...-dressed-longblock-fuel-injection-bp306maxctf