Front Axle Decisions EB D44 VS HP D44

[BruiserOutdoors]

I need some input from those with experience.

I currently have a disc brake early bronco dana 44 front axle.

I plan to run 408w/6r80w/atlas 2 on 37s. 70% snow/sand + 30% street. I am planning to run chromoly axle shafts with CTM joints.


The two paths I have entertained are as follows:


1) Rebuild existing axle (Stock EB Dana 44)

2) Buy and shorten HP Dana 44




Question #1: What are the pros and cons of each? Is the High Pinion much more stronger? The housing will cost me roughly $600 and the shortening will cost me another $600+/-. Is the High Pinion worth the extra $$$$?


Question #2: Will the HP interfere with the oil pan? I will be running a 3.5" duff long arm kit.


Question #3: If I go HP, will factory EB disc brakes fit ? Are the knuckles different?


Question #4: What traction device would you recommend? Have heard good things about the True Trac.


Question #5: What gear ratio would you recommend? I am Leaning towards 4.88 after playing with some online calculators.


Thanks in advance for your guidance. I have been going back and forth on which route to go.

 

[jamesroney]

You forgot to mention that if you buy a HP 44, then you can sell your old Bronco 44 and recover some cash.

All dana 44's in early broncos need the knuckles to be cut and turned. Not some. Every single one. If you want it to steer when you are done, you will need to cut and turn it. You will want to include that in your price for your low pinion 44.

I don't know where you are getting your housing, but a 76-77 HP44 core should cost about $750-$1000 from hub to hub, and get you your knuckles and disc brakes. Watch out for east coast rusted and pitted housings. there's nothing "wrong" with rusty junk, but if you are paying good money...might as well get good stuff.

1. HP 44 will carry more weight without bending. The HP 44 has 1/2 inch thick wall tubes. The cast wedge HP44 also has larger diameter tubes. Don't buy a cast wedge 44. The HP44 ring and pinion is stronger when the vehicle is driving forward. A low pinion 44 is stronger when the vehicle is driving in reverse. I don't know how much time you spend driving in any particular direction.
2. I run a HP44 with Duff Arms and 3.5 lift, and an 8.2 deck 302 Bronco pan. It doesn't hit the pan. Your 351 Windsor pan will have problems. There are aftermarket oil pans that fit. My Atlas output is in direct alignment with my HP 44 input.
3. Factory EB discs will fit. The Knuckles are different, but only the Tie rod location and size. Caliper mounts out are identical. Ackerman angle is different. I prefer the F100 knuckles because they give better wheel clearance at the TRE.
4. ARB selectable locker in the front. True trac is a pile of crap. Just less stinky than the other piles of crap out there. When something is vastly better than a trac-lock, you get a reputation for being "good." But that doesn't make it great. ARB's are great. (unless they are in a 9 inch...then they suck.) I could be convinced to do an e-locker if you are staying out of the rocks. When you are in the snow, and if you want the steering wheel to control which way your Bronco points...you want an OPEN diff up front. Selectable locker, and no regrets. Don't even think of getting a Tochigi Fuji Sangyo selectable. (Rubicon locker) Now that they are expensive, they are not worth it.
5. I run 4.88 with 35's. If I had 37's, I'd go 5.13. I don't have a 6R80. NvrStuk on this board loves his ZF-HP26 German Ravigneaux transmission. He has some great insight on gear ratio's and driveability. Everybody knows I'm emotional about automatics, because I hate them.

Have fun!

 

[1969]

Why not just get a Dana 60? Why even waste your time with a HP44. You’re doing all that work for a marginally better axle than you already have.

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

Why not just get a Dana 60? Why even waste your time with a HP44. You’re doing all that work for a marginally better axle than you already have.

I get this answer alot. Trying to keep unsprung weight down and stay 5 lug for the look. I already have wheels. Also heard ground clearance with 37s is worse with a D60

 

[hossbronco]

I’m in the Dana 60 camp too. If you’re going to build both the cost difference is negligible. With a 408W, 37 inch tires, and high RPM offroading (sand and snow) you’re asking to break a Dana 44.

I couldn’t tell you the ins and outs of the Dana 44s, but a Dana 60 would be a starting point for me. I’d be more concerned with axle strength than unsprung weight and clearance in this situation.

Sorry for echoing what everyone else is telling you.

 

[1969]

You can smash the Dana 60 into whatever you want.. I wouldn’t worry about ground clearance. You get huge brakes, huge axle shafts, huge gears. You don’t have to really upgrade anything on it. Maybe regear and and a locker with a rebuild kit and some hubs.

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

You can smash the Dana 60 into whatever you want.. I wouldn’t worry about ground clearance. You get huge brakes, huge axle shafts, huge gears. You don’t have to really upgrade anything on it. Maybe regear and and a locker with a rebuild kit and some hu

I assume I'm looking at custom axle shafts at that point? And a narrowed rear axle with new perches, and custom axles out back too. Another rabbit hole.


There's a fair amount of people who make the dana 44 live on bigger tires.

Kevin Garrett
CRAB
5001Craig
Etc... they are running 408-427 strokers, why can't I?

Plus some lower HP guys like
Jim Shrum


D60 will cause oil pan issues, I'm already concerned about this with the HP44, and a good reason I am still considering using the stock D44.



I already have an oil pan, steering linkage, duff long arm kit, etc... all already purchased. Trying to work within my means. All of y'all are so hardcore d60. Was hoping to avoid that can of worms.


Describe the d60 rabbit hole and how that would look, including what rear end is suggested too. I want stock EB width BTW

 

[Yeller]

I'm not going to hide that I'm in the D60 camp. However, its not for everyone and I do get not wanting to crawl down that rabbit hole. That being said its still a 44, spend no more dollars than necessary, run it hard and it will still break, run it like 90% of people and it will live forever. Cut and turn your existing housing to fix castor and pinion angle, put in your locker or LS of choice, axles, ujoints (grease them every day of every outing) and enjoy. Just keep in mind if you are in that 10% it is not a one and done, something will break, it all depends on, driving skill, knowing when to lift or back off, how often you go, how many miles you go, it all matters to accumulated wear and tear, axles, knuckles, ring and pinions, all of those parts have an expiration date of how many times they can be pushed to the limit and survive. Everything is a compromise, you just have to pick the comprises you are willing to accept.

 

[jamesroney]

Every time I convince myself that a 5-760x u-joint (Dana 44) is good enough for 35’s…I go out and break something.

I don’t know why I listen to the internet.

 

[DirtDonk]

Did that happen last weekend at Prairie city?
Or just an old picture you dug up?

 

[Madgyver]

we did a FWHP D44 swap because we had it. straight up swap as it is, no shortening of the fullwidth axles. Only added fabricated tracbar riser on axle.
I now have 2 D60 front axles that i have options with. looks simple enough to swap out like the fwhp d44. one will go under yellow77 with 8lug wheels to match.

 

[EB70]

Regarding the dana 60 stuff, there are "kits" to swap to 5 on 5.5 BP. You can also do it yourself with parts mixing and matching. My existing EB is 37's with a Dana 44. I bought the upgraded shafts from Toms. 4.56's and a rear locker. It all works and does not crack in half every time I let the clutch out. I do snow and sand and street. Not much else. But.....I have a stock 302, not a throttle jockey and I don't do rocks with it.

The next Bronco is getting a 60. It has so much more room to grow, I don't have to worry and it really isn't that much of a loss in ground clearance and so forth.

 

[crab]

As BruiserOutdoors mentioned, I’m running a standard EB 44 with Chevy brakes, Superior Evolution axles, CTM joints with OX locker. The rear is a TrueHi9 (not the 8.8 Currie) w/full spool. I’ve broke traction bars and 3 built C6 transmissions behind the 351/427 Stroker and zero failures with either axle turning 37” boggers and 36” iroks.

 

[toddz69]

ARB's are great. (unless they are in a 9 inch...then they suck.)

What is your rear differential TAD of choice, James?

Todd Z.

 

[jamesroney]

What is your rear differential TAD of choice, James?

Todd Z.

It depends. 8 lug is GM 14 bolt. Detroit Locker.
5 lug, I like the junkyard Dana 60, weld on big bearing Torino ends, and buy 35 spline axles from Wild H. Add junkyard Explorer discs. (Basically the 67-70 F100 Dana 60 with limited slip…) then I love the ARB!

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

I ended up finding a stock 76 EB D44 with an e-locker, 4.88 gears, spicer u-joints, upgraded axles, warn hubs, f150 spindles, etc... and a matching 76 9" with a Detroit locker with 4.88 gears and 31 spline upgraded axles. I will report back with my successes and failures. I won't be surprised when it happens but it should get me on the trail sooner and out having fun.

 

[toddz69]

It depends. 8 lug is GM 14 bolt. Detroit Locker.
5 lug, I like the junkyard Dana 60, weld on big bearing Torino ends, and buy 35 spline axles from Wild H. Add junkyard Explorer discs. (Basically the 67-70 F100 Dana 60 with limited slip…) then I love the ARB!

Cool - thanks for the info. What's wrong with an ARB in a 9" vs. one in a D60?

Todd Z.

 

[jamesroney]

Cool - thanks for the info. What's wrong with an ARB in a 9" vs. one in a D60?

Todd Z.

So it turns out that the additional pinion bearing and pinion support necessatate a reduced diameter differential carrier in that area. So the ARB in a 9 inch is tiny compared to the D60. It's the exact same problem for any of the clutch type Limited Slips, which is why the Dana 60 Power Lock is vastly superior to the 9 inch traction lok. (and why the D60 power lock was available in the F100 for a few years...)

Since the 9 inch ARB has to be small, the gears are small, and the piston to engage the locking clutch is undersized. Also, the engagement side of the sliding gear has a chamfer lead-in which means that you need more shift travel than is available. So the 9 inch gear collar will tend to disengage under load. If it happens once, then it happens again, and then the gear strips. ARB mitigated the problem by recommending super high PSI pressure against the shift collar, but that was only effective in the marginal cases. Eventually, ARB reversed the shift direction, and created the 9 inch Competition Model...which defaults to the engaged position...and uses air pressure to disengage. The components are just too small, and too weak when compared to the D60.

The only robust solution for the 9 inch is the Detroit Locker, which has adequate room in the carrier to hold the side gears. (Obviously a full spool in a 9 inch is legendary at the race track.)

Once I decide to run 35 inch tires, then I need 35 spline shafts. If you need 35 spline shafts, then you need an oversized 9 inch housing, and a 35 spline locker. By the time you buy a 3.250 nodular housing, and a daytona pinion support, and a 35 spline ARB, and a pair of Chrome Moly shafts, you are upwards of $3K. I can stuff a lunchbox detroit into a 14 bolt full float for under $1K. And with cab and chassis hubs, I might not even need to cut it. If you want it to fit under a Bronco, then you need to cut it, and if I'm going to cut one...then I'd rather build a semi float 60.

Hope that helps.

 

[toddz69]

So it turns out that the additional pinion bearing and pinion support necessatate a reduced diameter differential carrier in that area. So the ARB in a 9 inch is tiny compared to the D60. It's the exact same problem for any of the clutch type Limited Slips, which is why the Dana 60 Power Lock is vastly superior to the 9 inch traction lok. (and why the D60 power lock was available in the F100 for a few years...)

Since the 9 inch ARB has to be small, the gears are small, and the piston to engage the locking clutch is undersized. Also, the engagement side of the sliding gear has a chamfer lead-in which means that you need more shift travel than is available. So the 9 inch gear collar will tend to disengage under load. If it happens once, then it happens again, and then the gear strips. ARB mitigated the problem by recommending super high PSI pressure against the shift collar, but that was only effective in the marginal cases. Eventually, ARB reversed the shift direction, and created the 9 inch Competition Model...which defaults to the engaged position...and uses air pressure to disengage. The components are just too small, and too weak when compared to the D60.

The only robust solution for the 9 inch is the Detroit Locker, which has adequate room in the carrier to hold the side gears. (Obviously a full spool in a 9 inch is legendary at the race track.)

Once I decide to run 35 inch tires, then I need 35 spline shafts. If you need 35 spline shafts, then you need an oversized 9 inch housing, and a 35 spline locker. By the time you buy a 3.250 nodular housing, and a daytona pinion support, and a 35 spline ARB, and a pair of Chrome Moly shafts, you are upwards of $3K. I can stuff a lunchbox detroit into a 14 bolt full float for under $1K. And with cab and chassis hubs, I might not even need to cut it. If you want it to fit under a Bronco, then you need to cut it, and if I'm going to cut one...then I'd rather build a semi float 60.

Hope that helps.

Always enlightening and informative. Thanks!

Todd Z.