Frames value

[jeffncs]

I think it really comes down to your state and the inspector. Some states are very strict about looking at the frame and running the VIN for theft when coming in from out of state (NC is the thorn in my side right now!). Other states just check the warranty tag or B pillar sticker and issue a title.

NC rules are funky and I gave up the fight. Their new rule book says the VIN follows the body. That’s good for these aftermarket frames, but bad for those of us wanting to build on an original frame with a donor body.

Short story - I did a bonded title for a frame out of AL bought on a notarized BoS. NC will title the frame and issue a separate VIN for for the truck once a body is bolted to it. I’ll have 2 VINs on the truck according to the DMV. Taking it 1 step further, I have the original glove box door with warranty tag and the inspector told me I wasn’t permitted to use it b/c it won’t match the state-issued body VIN ((!!!!!). I was wasting my time discussing it so I quit arguing the point. This truck will stay in the family so it doesn’t matter any time soon…. Just silly logic on their part.

 

[toddz69]

See the recent BAT auction of a Bronco with aftermarket frame somehow titled only with door tag. Seller swore it was all legit and no frame VIN was necessary. I would touch a vehicle like that.


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There have been several like that recently. I'm always leery of those as well.

Todd Z.

 

[toddz69]

I wonder how they determine who is in the "right". The other guy presumably presented the title, along with fees for his Bronco. Then your friend comes along and tries to get a bonded title in his state. What happens next?

That was the question I also asked and didn't know the answer to. There may be more to the story forthcoming. We'll see...

Todd Z.

 

[thegreatjustino]

So, I have a 1970 I want to build. Body was junk and is gone except the dash and VIN plate. I have a clear title. The frame is junk and I've been looking into aftermarket frames. I'm in Indiana. If what y'all are saying is true, how can they sell aftermarket frames? Aftermarket custom frames are big business! I'm sure there are many high dollar Broncos titled, licensed and bought and sold with no frame VINs.
Not building to sell but to keep. Also have a 1971 my wife and I rebuilt a few years ago. It has a new body but original frame.

The frame manufacturers will stamp a frame with your VIN as long as you can prove you're the legal owner of that VIN. Why do you think the high end builders advertise in Bronco Driver magazine about wanting to buy your frame? They buy a frame with a title, scrap the frame, use the title to stamp the new frame, and build a brand new classic Bronco complete with 50 year old VIN keeping it from being a kit car title.

 

[toddz69]

The frame manufacturers will stamp a frame with your VIN as long as you can prove you're the legal owner of that VIN. Why do you think the high end builders advertise in Bronco Driver magazine about wanting to buy your frame? They buy a frame with a title, scrap the frame, use the title to stamp the new frame, and build a brand new classic Bronco complete with 50 year old VIN keeping it from being a kit car title.

Very interesting. I wasn't aware that they were allowed to do that.

Todd Z.

 

[carter2772]

Wait, so you're saying that people with a bunch of money can kinda do what they want?

 

[LUBr LuvR]

I think it really comes down to your state and the inspector. Some states are very strict about looking at the frame and running the VIN for theft when coming in from out of state (NC is the thorn in my side right now!). Other states just check the warranty tag or B pillar sticker and issue a title.

NC rules are funky and I gave up the fight. Their new rule book says the VIN follows the body. That’s good for these aftermarket frames, but bad for those of us wanting to build on an original frame with a donor body.

Short story - I did a bonded title for a frame out of AL bought on a notarized BoS. NC will title the frame and issue a separate VIN for for the truck once a body is bolted to it. I’ll have 2 VINs on the truck according to the DMV. Taking it 1 step further, I have the original glove box door with warranty tag and the inspector told me I wasn’t permitted to use it b/c it won’t match the state-issued body VIN ((!!!!!). I was wasting my time discussing it so I quit arguing the point. This truck will stay in the family so it doesn’t matter any time soon…. Just silly logic on their part.

Just trying to follow along.....so if you have the frame VIN titled, put a new body on and order a matching warranty/glove box plate & certification label for the door jamb from Marti (rather than use the one you have) - would that solve your mismatch issue?

 

[big blue]

I came across this situation some time ago. An acquaintance in another state had a frame with a VIN on it but no title. He found that VIN was registered to a vehicle here in AZ. I was all for ruining the other guy's day .

Todd Z.

I sold the dash off one of mine 20 years ago and like someone said they weren't worth much then so I left the glovebox door on.
So last week I was going to sell the frame and when the guy ran it someone in Texas had registered. I lost out on 1,000 dollars.

 

[jeffncs]

Just trying to follow along.....so if you have the frame VIN titled, put a new body on and order a matching warranty/glove box plate & certification label for the door jamb from Marti (rather than use the one you have) - would that solve your mismatch issue?

Yes with a curveball. He flagged my file as being a “frame” only and wouldn’t budge on the body thing. He even ran me through the wringer for not having the body. I told he it’s was a crumpled mess laying in the weeds next to my frame… I’m tempted to ask the guy that owns the body to send me the drivers B pillar so I now “own the VIN-marked body” since I already own the matching frame and glovebox door.

 

[Tricky Dick]

I have a 1977 frame. No title I checked the vin and it was last registered 7 years ago. What's the value of something like this?

Oh and to answer the original question, I see untitled not-rotted frames for 500-1000. I gave 1800 for a bent and burnt titled 66 U14 frame, which I then traded straight up for a really nice blasted/coated titled 68 U15 frame. After seeing titled bare frames in the 2500-4000 range I think I did ok there.

 

[thegreatjustino]

I sold the dash off one of mine 20 years ago and like someone said they weren't worth much then so I left the glovebox door on.
So last week I was going to sell the frame and when the guy ran it someone in Texas had registered. I lost out on 1,000 dollars.

No you didn't. Get a title for the frame, file a fraud complaint with the appropriate party regarding the guy who used the glove box tag to fraudulently obtain a title. You get a clear title for your frame, guy who committed fraud has a nightmare ahead of him.

 

[LUBr LuvR]

Yes with a curveball. He flagged my file as being a “frame” only and wouldn’t budge on the body thing. He even ran me through the wringer for not having the body. I told he it’s was a crumpled mess laying in the weeds next to my frame… I’m tempted to ask the guy that owns the body to send me the drivers B pillar so I now “own the VIN-marked body” since I already own the matching frame and glovebox door.

Getting the B pillar definitely sounds like the best option if the guy will part (pun intended) with it. Be mighty tempting to insert said pillar in a certain orifice when brought to said inspector. Geez, most labels are long gone thru repaint or age - so how would many folks who even have the body prove it was original to “that” frame?

 

[mebco09]

No you didn't. Get a title for the frame, file a fraud complaint with the appropriate party regarding the guy who used the glove box tag to fraudulently obtain a title. You get a clear title for your frame, guy who committed fraud has a nightmare ahead of him.

OK, let me change the situation a little. You have a title AND glovebox door from a wreck. You buy an aftermarket frame, and use the frame in a build. Do you "own" the title, yes or no?

In your example, the guy with the frame is holding all the power. I would argue that without the frame AND title, you are on the same footing as a guy with just a title.

What's stopping someone from re-stamping a frame with a known VIN # (they are all over the internet), and getting a bonded title?

 

[thegreatjustino]

OK, let me change the situation a little. You have a title AND glovebox door from a wreck. You buy an aftermarket frame, and use the frame in a build. Do you "own" the title, yes or no?

You do not. Federal law states the title is assigned to the frame. In this example the individual using the body and title to get a frame stamped is committing fraud. Now, if as bmc69 points out in his example, if the frame the title is assigned to is knowingly scrapped and the title is used to title another frame, A-OK. When you use a title for a body to get a frame stamped, but there's another frame out there with that VIN, you are committing fraud. The ONLY way to legally do this is to get the frame as well and scrap it.

Again, why do you think the big time builders advertise in Bronco Driver Magazine looking for titled frames to buy? Because they know they need the frame to do things legally.

 

[bmc69]

So, I have a 1970 I want to build. Body was junk and is gone except the dash and VIN plate. I have a clear title. The frame is junk and I've been looking into aftermarket frames. I'm in Indiana. If what y'all are saying is true, how can they sell aftermarket frames? Aftermarket custom frames are big business! I'm sure there are many high dollar Broncos titled, licensed and bought and sold with no frame VINs.
Not building to sell but to keep. Also have a 1971 my wife and I rebuilt a few years ago. It has a new body but original frame.

I'm pretty sure that the titles I sold after I scrapped the frames were for builds with brand new frames. Otherwise, here in MD you can get a state-assigned VIN for any "home built" project vehicle as long as it meets with certain requirements. Some kit car companies also supply a "Certificate of Origin" to be used to apply for a new VIN and title...not sure if any of the EB frame sellers do.

 

[bmc69]

Other states just check the warranty tag or B pillar sticker and issue a title.

That's typical here in MD too. And those lazy clowns are the ones creating the potential problems for the unsuspecting buyer/owner. It's an "information deficit"...inspectors that do not know the law for the earlier vehicle VINs.

 

[NGABronco]

On a different note, with a new VIN number, do you pay property tax on a 2023 vehicle???

 

[jeffncs]

On a different note, with a new VIN number, do you pay property tax on a 2023 vehicle???

I sure hope not!!!!!!

 

[Tricky Dick]

On a different note, with a new VIN number, do you pay property tax on a 2023 vehicle???

A lot of EBs are worth more than 23s so maybe that's a good thing?

 

[big blue]

OK, let me change the situation a little. You have a title AND glovebox door from a wreck. You buy an aftermarket frame, and use the frame in a build. Do you "own" the title, yes or no?

In your example, the guy with the frame is holding all the power. I would argue that without the frame AND title, you are on the same footing as a guy with just a title.

What's stopping someone from re-stamping a frame with a known VIN # (they are all over the internet), and getting a bonded title?

I can get the title , back then I bought a lot of broncos and didn't always get the title, I know where previous owner lives.
I may do that and sell it to the guy who has my vin on his bronco.