U15 1966 or 1967

[Tophansen]

Trying to verify if my u15 is a 1966 or 1967. VIN # U15NLA48197. Most everything on chassis points to 1966, rear shocks forward, brakes, single master cylinder. However when researching sequential build month (Nov. A42000 - A55999 ) it shows as built Nov. 1966 making it a 1967. State Patrol inspected and are saying 1967 for title. Want to get other opinions, given the chassis components seem to be 1966. Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

I would’ve thought anything with an A would’ve been at 66 myself. But I’m not much of a guru on VIN sequences.
However, I will say, that being November doesn’t necessarily make a vehicle the next model year. That’s tradition, yes. But there’s no law that says a vehicle built before December 31 of a given year can’t still be sold as a current model year if that’s what the manufacturer says it is.
The DMV doesn’t go by the build month or we’d have a lot of problems. The DMV goes by what the vehicle manufacturer states.
So to my way of thinking, anything south of January 1 could be either, depending upon what Ford says it is.

However, I don’t think I’ve ever heard that the 66 model year ran late. But we know the 73 and 76 model yours did for a fact.
August is just an arbitrary month that the manufacturers choose to start the changeover, so they have next year‘s vehicles ready to sell at the dealers by Christmas.
But it’s not a law. It’s only an expedient convenient manufacturing process.

 

[DirtDonk]

I meant to add not to worry. Because there are several definite VIN experts on call here.
Hopefully okie will see this and chime in.

 

[Scoop]

Do all the VINs match? Title, kick panel warranty plate, frame?

 

[hsach]

I don't know if this helps or not. My 1967 was built on 9/23/66 and has rear facing shocks. Like Paul, I don't have much experience with VINs, but I think it would be very interesting to see if yours came with the 66 stuff and was built a couple of months after mine.

 

[toddz69]

Do all the VINs match? Title, kick panel warranty plate, frame?

This /\ /\.

Let's start with matching VINs and go from there.

Todd Z.

 

[DirtDonk]

Are the forward facing rear shocks using an eye mount at the top? Or a stem mount upper with eye lower?

 

[okie4570]

Forward facing have the stem mount upper. Even the later build 66's had rear facing shocks already. Better check the frame vin as the others mentioned.

 

[Tophansen]

Do all the VINs match? Title, kick panel warranty plate, frame?

Yes frame vin and kick panel match. Front and rear shocks are same. Stem on top and open on bottom for bolt.

 

[okie4570]

Post up as many interior pics as you can if possible. There were no 66' vins that the last six weren't all digits. A00001 began the 67' run in 8/66'. There were quite a few "66" parts that were shared into the 67' model year but rear shocks and master cylinder weren't. Which transfer case shifter do you have, and is there a short brace from the passenger fender to the firewall near the heater hoses? Thanks

 

[Tophansen]

Forward facing have the stem mount upper. Even the later build 66's had rear facing shocks already. Better check the frame vin as the others mentioned.

Thanks for the replies. I had vehicle inspected by State Patrol. Vin on frame matches Vin on kickpanel. Based on thier search, title says 1967. My research indicated August of 1966 started the A series. Cant send any pics of interior , have everything torn down, currently getting ready to install engine in reconditioned frame and drivetrain. My guess is 66 frame used on a 1967 model year unit..... My research shows VIN # U15NLA48197 was produced Nov. 1966 A42000 - A55999

 

[jamesroney]

Sure sounds like a’67 then, don’t it?
Where is the door key lock cylinder located?
That was another difference tracked to 66’s and 67’s.
Might be a usable data point.
Any others?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far, @Tophansen has presented zero credible evidence to support his claim...and there are literally thousands of examples to contradict it.

The notion that a "State Patrol" inspected the frame and warranty tag, and a picture cannot be produced because "the engine is out..." is disingenuous at best. These are the kind of "tales" that get invented by charlatans and confirmed by spectators. For many years, these kind of things were accepted as "factory deviations." But we are no longer living in the 1970's. We have technology, and we have information sharing, and we have pooled knowledge.

So I'm just going state the original assertion, and the alternate hypothesis and let's see which is more likely.

H(o) My 1967 Bronco was manufactured with a "leftover frame" built to 1966 specification.

H(a) My 1967 Bronco body tub with warranty plate ID# U15NLA48197 was built in November of 66, and is sitting on a 1966 chassis from another Bronco.

1. You claim that you have a "single master cylinder," which means that you have a hydraulic brake light switch, and no brake balance valve. Which means you have brake light WIRING under the hood. Which means you have a 1966 wiring harness. But a 1967 has a brake light switch on the pedal inside the Bronco. Which means that someone had to EITHER install a 1966 wiring harness which just happened to be "leftover" on the assembly line...or someone had to modify a 67 harness on the assembly line. This would have to be performed by a high-school educated UAW line worker with no tools, and no parts, and would have had to be performed in under 90 seconds. (typical TAKT time of Bronco assembly in 1967)
2. Somebody had to make this "leftover" frame and somehow introduce it to the manufacturing flow. Please understand that the frame would be assembled and welded and then stored "somewhere." I don't know where "somewhere" is located, because the frames are built to spec...and there would have to be frames for 6 cyl Broncos, and 8 cyl Broncos...so somebody would have had to KNOW that they were going to need a frame for a Bronco that was going to be built 4 months later...and AFTER the factory had been re-tooled. Keep in mind that Ford is building 100,000 vehicles per month, and they ONLY close down for 2 weeks to re-tool in Late July/Aug. They wouldn't even have the tooling in the factory to make the stamped part that you call the upper shock mount.
3. Somebody has to install the rear axle into the chassis. Again, you have 90 seconds. And you have to have an axle from the drivetrain group that has the correct gear ratio, and correct capacity, and correct limited slip and brakes. OH...it also has to have the shock mounts welded on it in facing FORWARD. So you need an axle that was built using tools and fixtures that have not been in the factory for over 4 months.
4. Somebody needs to install the rear shocks. But what shocks to install? And where do they come from? What part number? And what wrench is used to attach it? The line worker doesn't have the wrench needed to attach the shock! And he doesn't have the shocks. And he wouldn't install them as a "one-off" even if he did have them. He would pull the Andon and stop production. This unit would be removed from the line, and production would resume. There would be lots of meetings, and analysis, and countermeasures put in place to prevent this lunacy from happening again. The UAW would no doubt file a grievance for creating a hostile work environment and impossible working conditions.
5. I could go on...but I won't.

Now will you please post a picture of your frame VIN as has been requested by @Scoop @toddz69 @DirtDonk @okie4570 ? Everyone is trying to help you with a wild notion that you might have a unicorn. But you have no evidence of a unicorn...yet.

And yeah...I guess that makes me a VIN expert.

 

[toddz69]

I figured @jamesroney would chime in on this one! Lots of things would have to happen to run a '66 frame down the line for '67 as he notes.

Todd Z.

 

[okie4570]

Thanks for the replies. I had vehicle inspected by State Patrol. Vin on frame matches Vin on kickpanel. Based on thier search, title says 1967. My research indicated August of 1966 started the A series. Cant send any pics of interior , have everything torn down, currently getting ready to install engine in reconditioned frame and drivetrain. My guess is 66 frame used on a 1967 model year unit..... My research shows VIN # U15NLA48197 was produced Nov. 1966 A42000 - A55999

August was the beginning of each model year. 66' began in 8/65'....67' began in 8/66' and so on. There were no 66' built in 8/66' and there were no 66' built with an A12345. There's another thread on here about who has the earliest built 67', all that info is available from Marti. The folks that chimed in on that thread, their 8/66' 1967 model builds are A00123 and so on. Do a Marti Report on yours. It sounds like someone replaced parts as needed on your 67' will available 66 parts.

 

[Tophansen]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far, @Tophansen has presented zero credible evidence to support his claim...and there are literally thousands of examples to contradict it.

The notion that a "State Patrol" inspected the frame and warranty tag, and a picture cannot be produced because "the engine is out..." is disingenuous at best. These are the kind of "tales" that get invented by charlatans and confirmed by spectators. For many years, these kind of things were accepted as "factory deviations." But we are no longer living in the 1970's. We have technology, and we have information sharing, and we have pooled knowledge.

So I'm just going state the original assertion, and the alternate hypothesis and let's see which is more likely.

H(o) My 1967 Bronco was manufactured with a "leftover frame" built to 1966 specification.

H(a) My 1967 Bronco body tub with warranty plate ID# U15NLA48197 was built in November of 66, and is sitting on a 1966 chassis from another Bronco.

1. You claim that you have a "single master cylinder," which means that you have a hydraulic brake light switch, and no brake balance valve. Which means you have brake light WIRING under the hood. Which means you have a 1966 wiring harness. But a 1967 has a brake light switch on the pedal inside the Bronco. Which means that someone had to EITHER install a 1966 wiring harness which just happened to be "leftover" on the assembly line...or someone had to modify a 67 harness on the assembly line. This would have to be performed by a high-school educated UAW line worker with no tools, and no parts, and would have had to be performed in under 90 seconds. (typical TAKT time of Bronco assembly in 1967)
2. Somebody had to make this "leftover" frame and somehow introduce it to the manufacturing flow. Please understand that the frame would be assembled and welded and then stored "somewhere." I don't know where "somewhere" is located, because the frames are built to spec...and there would have to be frames for 6 cyl Broncos, and 8 cyl Broncos...so somebody would have had to KNOW that they were going to need a frame for a Bronco that was going to be built 4 months later...and AFTER the factory had been re-tooled. Keep in mind that Ford is building 100,000 vehicles per month, and they ONLY close down for 2 weeks to re-tool in Late July/Aug. They wouldn't even have the tooling in the factory to make the stamped part that you call the upper shock mount.
3. Somebody has to install the rear axle into the chassis. Again, you have 90 seconds. And you have to have an axle from the drivetrain group that has the correct gear ratio, and correct capacity, and correct limited slip and brakes. OH...it also has to have the shock mounts welded on it in facing FORWARD. So you need an axle that was built using tools and fixtures that have not been in the factory for over 4 months.
4. Somebody needs to install the rear shocks. But what shocks to install? And where do they come from? What part number? And what wrench is used to attach it? The line worker doesn't have the wrench needed to attach the shock! And he doesn't have the shocks. And he wouldn't install them as a "one-off" even if he did have them. He would pull the Andon and stop production. This unit would be removed from the line, and production would resume. There would be lots of meetings, and analysis, and countermeasures put in place to prevent this lunacy from happening again. The UAW would no doubt file a grievance for creating a hostile work environment and impossible working conditions.
5. I could go on...but I won't.

Now will you please post a picture of your frame VIN as has been requested by @Scoop @toddz69 @DirtDonk @okie4570 ? Everyone is trying to help you with a wild notion that you might have a unicorn. But you have no evidence of a unicorn...yet.

And yeah...I guess that makes me a VIN expert.

I have never implied that I cannot provide a picture of my vin, in fact when I painted frame I left it unpainted to show VIN. Im new to adding pics here, I need to find out how to post a pic without paying to be a contributor.
Thanks

 

[jamesroney]

I have never implied that I cannot provide a picture of my vin, in fact when I painted frame I left it unpainted to show VIN. Im new to adding pics here, I need to find out how to post a pic without paying to be a contributor.
Thanks

You can drop a pic in into your Garage, or use it for your Avatar without paying the fee.

(get ready for the predictable onslaught of people telling you how you should spend your money...)

As long as you are 100% certain...then you don't need to prove anything to me! Just take a look at the body tub cut out on the rear wheel wells where the top of the rear shocks are located. The 67 body will have the tub cut for clearance in the rear, aft of the axle. No such cut out on a 66. Also, there will be a brake warning lamp in the dash on the 67. Doesn't exist on a 66.

 

[Tophansen]

My only motivation here is to try and determine year. When I bought vehicle , title didnt match vin on frame/ kickpanel, thus WSP inspection. They determined thru DOL its a 1967. When I went to get shocks and brakes, found out those items are 66 thus the confusion. My provisional title becomes permanent in one month. Would like it to say 66 if in fact its a 66. The hard part is having proof for DOL since WSP report says 67.

Anyways thanks everyone for their help. I will drop pics into my garage and see what happens

 

[thegreatjustino]

I have never implied that I cannot provide a picture of my vin, in fact when I painted frame I left it unpainted to show VIN. Im new to adding pics here, I need to find out how to post a pic without paying to be a contributor.
Thanks

Guy doing a restoration on a Bronco doesn't want to spring for $12 to determine what he has...

 

[jamesroney]

My only motivation here is to try and determine year. When I bought vehicle , title didnt match vin on frame/ kickpanel, thus WSP inspection. They determined thru DOL its a 1967. When I went to get shocks and brakes, found out those items are 66 thus the confusion. My provisional title becomes permanent in one month. Would like it to say 66 if in fact its a 66. The hard part is having proof for DOL since WSP report says 67.

Anyways thanks everyone for their help. I will drop pics into my garage and see what happens

And you have succeeded. You own a 1967 Ford Bronco Station Wagon. Rolled off the assembly line in November of 1966, year model 1967. Originally sold in the Pacific Northwest out of the Seattle District Sales Office. Wimbledon White with 2 bucket seats and a rear seat.

It is evident from the pics in your garage that there was a slight factory mis-stamp on the VIN, but it is certainly U15NLA48197, (and the additional hand re-stamp is also cute.)

Somebody added 1966 rear shock mounts to the frame and welded them on poorly. Not sure why.

You can get a good date code for the rear axle from the rear axle tag. (I can see it in the pic.)
You can also get a good date code from the front axle tag.
There are some numbers stamped on the passenger frame rail near the front bumper horn. Those will be unique to 1967. Don't be misled by the C6TA- part numbers on some crossmembers mounts and components. Those C6 parts carried thru for several years.

Nothing too unusual here.

 

[okie4570]

The correct 67' rear shock mounts are there still also. Broncohio has caused great confusion because of inaccuracies on their pages, they have some accurate info, and some that is not accurate whatsoever. Both pages you posted for example. If you'll notice every month of 67' production begins with A, they didn't. August 66' began A00001 and ended July 67' with B82000. 66' began 8/65 with 732001 and ended in 7/66 with 914000.