351 with 2000 explorer efi will run for 1 second

[DirtDonk]

Post up a picture of both sides, just so we know exactly what you’re talking about.
I’m pretty sure I do, but just want to be sure.

If they are what I think they are, then one side is going to be for a filler cap with the double notches for the locking tabs. Correct?
The other side is simply a round hole. Also correct?
Is there a rubber grommet that comes with the covers?

If they are, and this is a 5.0 with EFI, I’m not sure that even the low profile filler cap will fit in the valve cover under the upper plenum.
Much less with a PCV valve.
Might have to be a custom solution. Custom, as in cap off the driver side, put the PCV valve in the back of the intake were Ford did (because of the clearance issue), and put some kind of an elbow fitting in the back of the passenger side.

Let’s see some pictures of your set up first.

 

[DirtDonk]

Wanted to see pics just to be sure.
Earlier you said you had those exact same valve covers, which I thought to mean the ones earlier in the thread where both had a filler neck and cap.
Or were you referring to the valve covers in EFI Guys video?

 

[rjrobin2002]

OK Paul... I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge, but maybe I'm just stupid or hard headed. You don't have to answer this, or you can, or somebody else. Running the 83-85 "Powered By Ford" valve covers, both having openings, how exactly do you make these work with the Explorer EFI? Everybody always talks about roller rockers, I don't need them. I'm looking for about 300hp. How do I make these valve covers work with Explorer EFI?

The system has to be sealed, you cant run the caps you use on them for carbs, so I welded a filler neck on both my openings and am adding a 3/8 barb on the passenger neck for fresh air PVC flow.

 

[36Fan]

I run these Ford EFI covers on my 347. Filler cap on the passenger side.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIovCsj-DFgAMVn4NaBR2zHgooEAQYBSABEgK7p_D_BwE

 

[Broncobowsher]

59 at the regulator and 45 at the rail doesn't make sense. Unless there is a regulator in there, that can't happen. Even a restriction won't do that until you have enough flow for the restriction to actually restrict.

Are you checking with 2 different gauges? Gauge accuracy can explain it.
Unhook the fuel line from the rail, place in a suitable container, cycle the pump and make sure you actually have flow.

 

[rjrobin2002]

59 at the regulator and 45 at the rail doesn't make sense. Unless there is a regulator in there, that can't happen. Even a restriction won't do that until you have enough flow for the restriction to actually restrict.

Are you checking with 2 different gauges? Gauge accuracy can explain it.
Unhook the fuel line from the rail, place in a suitable container, cycle the pump and make sure you actually have flow.

I had my corvette 59 psi regulator way back towards my tank and am assuming that's why my pressure drop from 59-45 was from.

I restricted return and got up to 70 psi continuous.

I am going away from the corvette filter regulator and gonna run the adjustable return regulator mounted to the firewall so I can have 65psi like I want and always have a fuel guage.

 

[DirtDonk]

I’ve been reading along during all this discussion of regulator location, and having a hard time understanding how it being back by the tank would serve to lower pressure at the engine.
If the pressure coming out of the filter is X psi, why isn’t it the same psi up at the rail?
The Ford regulator we were talking about is even further away in the tank.
That’s as far back as you can get and it’s still gets 65 psi up to the engine.

Is there something between the filter/regulator and the engine in your application that is expanding and reducing the pressure? Even that wouldn’t make sense to me, because after maximum expansion is reached, pressure would build up to it’s maximum. At least the pressure is in my head!

So I guess I don’t quite get why you’re not getting the rated pressure up at the fuel rail on the engine.
Seems like the regulator itself is at fault. Pinching it off and getting 70 says to me that the built-in regulator is regulating it too low.

Waiting for the lightbulb to kick off in my head. Interested in being schooled on the dynamics at work here.

 

[ba123]

My own feeling is that an injector opening would lead to the pressure drop and the regulator so far back wouldn’t be able to act quickly enough…but I could be making that up.

I think a system that is designed this way has some other way to adjust for this, but again, that’s just my own thought as I’ve always run the reg after the rails so easy as cake.

Also, @rjrobin2002 you can put the regulator anywhere you want and run it the right way.

Fuel line to rails, second rail back to regulator, and it’s all where you put it.

 

[DirtDonk]

Reasonable. But aren’t you seeing only 40 to 45 psi even when the engine is not running?
At idle, I wouldn’t think that the supply would be depleted sufficiently to lower the pressure that much.
But I’m just making that up too!

I suppose you could key on, key off, key on, key off to see what the pressure ultimately builds to.
If it never goes above 45, I’d say it’s not the injector’s problem.

 

[rjrobin2002]

I’ve been reading along during all this discussion of regulator location, and having a hard time understanding how it being back by the tank would serve to lower pressure at the engine.
If the pressure coming out of the filter is X psi, why isn’t it the same psi up at the rail?
The Ford regulator we were talking about is even further away in the tank.
That’s as far back as you can get and it’s still gets 65 psi up to the engine.

Is there something between the filter/regulator and the engine in your application that is expanding and reducing the pressure? Even that wouldn’t make sense to me, because after maximum expansion is reached, pressure would build up to it’s maximum. At least the pressure is in my head!

So I guess I don’t quite get why you’re not getting the rated pressure up at the fuel rail on the engine.
Seems like the regulator itself is at fault. Pinching it off and getting 70 says to me that the built-in regulator is regulating it too low.

Waiting for the lightbulb to kick off in my head. Interested in being schooled on the dynamics at work here.

I am thinking the same as you, your not crazy.

It could be a faulty corvette regulator, but even with that, I want 65 psi instead of 59 and don't feel like trying another one.

I have no filter between the corvette filter/regulator and the rail.

I can create proper PSI by restricted return, so the pump has the nuts.

But if you read on regulators they all have specific instructions to have them as close to the rail as possible, I am 8 feet away.

My 45psi builds fast and holds after turning the key off for a long time, so I don't have a stuck injector.

 

[dmoses42]

Wanted to see pics just to be sure.
Earlier you said you had those exact same valve covers, which I thought to mean the ones earlier in the thread where both had a filler neck and cap.
Or were you referring to the valve covers in EFI Guys video?

The ones in EFI Guy's video. The mid 80's "Power By Ford" finned valve covers. Sorry, I should've noted that...

 

[Jfryjfry]

While the fuel pressure might not be ideal, I would bet that it is not relevant to it running for a second and dying.

And that it runs longer with the maf unplugged supports that. Especially that it ran for a few minutes.

I’d set fuel pressure aside for the time being and start looking at other stuff.

Can you get it to crank and not fire? Get a test light for the injectors and see if they keep firing after it dies. Check for spark and see if that’s firing.

It almost is as if it’s getting power to something important from somewhere that only has power when it is cranking, like the starter post or the I post on the starter relay/solenoid.

Except that it did run for a few mins once….

 

[DirtDonk]

Nah, everybody else probably got it but me!

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I can create proper PSI by restricted return, so the pump has the nuts.

That's another thing... These pumps can usually max out at over 100psi in my experience. Maybe they're not all that way, and maybe one that's meant for 45psi maxes out at, say, 60psi. But that's not the case for the ratings I've seen.
In the past I've seen replacement Mustang pumps for the 45psi engines, rated at up to 120psi.

So just another oddity in my book.
But I'm generally with Jfry and others on this as well. It should still run for more than a second.
But to be fighting on two fronts is always more difficult.

Paul

 

[rjrobin2002]

While the fuel pressure might not be ideal, I would bet that it is not relevant to it running for a second and dying.

And that it runs longer with the maf unplugged supports that. Especially that it ran for a few minutes.

I’d set fuel pressure aside for the time being and start looking at other stuff.

Can you get it to crank and not fire? Get a test light for the injectors and see if they keep firing after it dies. Check for spark and see if that’s firing.

It almost is as if it’s getting power to something important from somewhere that only has power when it is cranking, like the starter post or the I post on the starter relay/solenoid.

Except that it did run for a few mins once….

It runs now with maf unplugged, efiguy spotted my pvc system is jacked up , I am gonna fix it next day off.

I missed a crucial hose that needed added to my intake tube to passenger valve cover.

 

[73azbronco]

You really need a method to extract crankcase gases. I recall ford 90's ish efi had a solenoid for crankcase vapor to intake manifold.

 

[rjrobin2002]

You really need a method to extract crankcase gases. I recall ford 90's ish efi had a solenoid for crankcase vapor to intake manifold.

I'm lining it out, just need a day off, my drill, a pipe tap, and two 3/8" barbs added

 

[EFI Guy]

The ones in EFI Guy's video. The mid 80's "Power By Ford" finned valve covers. Sorry, I should've noted that...

I have a twist-in cap that holds the gutted PCV in the PS VC. The functional PCV is in the back of the intake. The DS VC just has a low-profile sealed oil cap and requires a long funnel to fill. Some of the aftermarket valve covers have knockouts for PCV grommets which would make the gutted PCV idea easy to do.

If it were me I'd try Doug's idea of drilling and tapping the boss on the throttle body before welding on the blingy air intake.

I also agree that 45 at the rail doesn't make much sense. It should be 65 (58 in this case) throughout the system. The pump should be able to deadhead right around 100 psi, so something isn't quite right there.

 

[Timmy390]

Try a different "regulator" filter. I've read the quality of the china knockoff regulator-filter combos are hit and miss.

Or maybe sucking air?

Tim

 

[rjrobin2002]

Try a different "regulator" filter. I've read the quality of the china knockoff regulator-filter combos are hit and miss.

Or maybe sucking air?

Tim

It's not sucking air, Im going to get a second gauge to try.

But I want 65 psi now that I see what every 5 pounds does to injectors ability to support HP and want to plumb a constant fuel guage anyways, so the adjustable regulator with guage will take care of both.