Twisted wedge heads

[pcf_mark]

Torque is just horsepower expressed at an rpm. Where do you want your power?

All stock iron Ford heads are terrible. If you have the bucks get an aftermarket aluminum head every chance you get over a Ford iron head. Sure you can get too big but every manufacturer makes a street head with a high velocity port that will make a 302 make plenty of power off idle to 5k. Twisted wedge is not a marketing gimmick those things work.

 

[AZ73]

Torque is just horsepower expressed at an rpm. Where do you want your power?

Actually HP is just Torque expressed at an RPM.

Horsepower = (RPM * Torque)/5252


HP will ALWAYS be lower than torque below 5252 RPM. If you spend a lot of time over 5252 RPM, then by all means, focus on worrying about higher HP. But if you're spending a lot of time over 5252 in a 4000 lb brick, think about adjusting your gearing instead of making more HP.

Here's a small example. That's me in the 911 doing 140 mph. About 20 seconds into the video you'll see a pick-up truck. Diesel. From a company that builds systems to increase torque. He's not spinning over 5000 rpm and has a 3sp auto with a geared overdrive for this event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJI_K0yZrvk.

Doesn't need HP at 140 mph. He's got low end Torque and proper gears. He just pulls away. I was at redline in 5th gear.

 

[68ford]

Actually HP is just Torque expressed at an RPM.

Horsepower = (RPM * Torque)/5252


HP will ALWAYS be lower than torque below 5252 RPM. If you spend a lot of time over 5252 RPM, then by all means, focus on worrying about higher HP. But if you're spending a lot of time over 5252 in a 4000 lb brick, think about adjusting your gearing instead of making more HP.

Here's a small example. That's me in the 911 doing 140 mph. About 20 seconds into the video you'll see a pick-up truck. Diesel. From a company that builds systems to increase torque. He's not spinning over 5000 rpm and has a 3sp auto with a geared overdrive for this event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJI_K0yZrvk.

Doesn't need HP at 140 mph. He's got low end Torque and proper gears. He just pulls away. I was at redline in 5th gear.

Please do not compare a diesel to a bronco has engine. Did not watch the video, but assuming it's a newer truck somewhere around 6 to 7 liters. Likely tunned up with aftermarket parts making like 40 to 50.psi of boost. You have to realize that many liters pumping that cubic volume is like the same as a natural aspirated engine of 30 liters. So of course it's going to make over a 1000 foot pounds and not need to spin.

 

[74 Bronco Billy]

Motorsports x303 cam

Do you have the specs on this cam?

I have trick flow twisted wedges on my 347. TEA prepped Twisted Wedge 170 Cylinder Heads 61cc. They fit fine and don't interfere with anything although I run taller valve covers because of my rockers. I run a slightly different cam and intake. The cam is based on the 347, TEA prepped TF heads, 4:11, 33s, 4500 lbs. It's similar to a Comp Cam XE256H but the duration isn't as long. I asked for the torque to come in low and while the intake is an Airgap RPM with a 1500-6500 RPM range, with the heads and cam it will actually shift it down about 500 RPM. I'm roughly 400 HP and 425 ft/lbs of Torque at the crank with the Torque coming on almost instantly. The 303 Cam shifts everything up the RPM range. It's designed for a higher revving motor.

This looks like the cam for me, but will it perform well at high RPMs upon occasion? Like snow wheeling?

So I wanted to back this up because ...Imsure there's a few naysayers on this engine compared to dyno-chassis HP losses- so I looked up a HR magazine test on two dyno'd engines that were later dyno'd in a car...staggering losses... on these cars they difference was averaging 36% loss...

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0311-drivetrain-power-loss/

I think that we all tend to quote TQ and HP numbers for an engine when it is dyno'd before putting it in a car, so, usually we are looking at the same numbers (comparatively). Rare to get a true RWHP or Tq Number.

74BroncoBilly- I run Trick Flow 205 CNC heads but nothing is stock so I cant help you on clearances to valve covers, the firewall, mc, nothing..


...but I can confirm one thing...just saying you're going to like those heads!!!

Sounds like the 11R Heads will work fine, especially if I go to the 347 Stroker I am contemplating. Should I go with bigger chambers? Why? I was planning on just the 53cc ones. I'd like to stay with 87 pump gas, but get that low end torque. That Crane Cam looked really interesting, I would like to hear more about how it works in comparison to like the Motorsports X303 or the Trick Flow Track Max HYD Roller Stage 1 Cam or the XE256H. How does lowering the duration make more torque at a lower rpm? Will this cam still make TQ and HP at higher RPM? What are the downsides to the Crane Cam compared to the Motorsports X303 or the TrickFlow Max HYD Roller Stage 1 Cam?

Thanks guys (gals?) for keeping this topic going, I find all your opinions enlightening. I just got a full Explorer serpentine set up from P n Pull and now its cleaning time.
Forrest

 

[Broncobowsher]

53cc heads sure sound small. Generally on a stroker it is hard to keep compression down, not build it up. You are drawing more air into the cylinder but compressing into the same space.

you want to run 87 octane, which means you will be in the low 9s for compression ratio. Generally engines run better with less dish in the piston, which means a bigger chamber to keep the compression down.

 

[broncnaz]

Ditto the 53cc heads would be pretty small chambers for a stroker and may not leave much for future machining. Highly doubtfull you could run on 87 with 53cc chambers. The 66's may be a little better choice for pump gas. And they could be machined down to get smaller chambers if needed. You really need to look at what the compression ratio is going to be with the various chambers most likely you want to try and get under 10-1 compression to run on pump gas.
I really dont care for the odd chamber sizes on the 11r heads to much figuring for me. But they could work out for some builds. you may want to look at the fast as cast 170's they will be fine on the 347 unless your looking to run high RPMs all the time. or Id even look at the 206 heads. Any which way you need to do some reasearch on what does what and make a educated decision before pulling the trigger on heads. they are but one factor in the over all engine.
I run old TFS 170 heads on my 302 and love them. I bought them with the thought of a future 351w install. plus when I bought them they were one of the only heads on the market in my price range. I believe there were only 3 companys offering heads at the time.

 

[AZ73]

Please do not compare a diesel to a bronco has engine. Did not watch the video, but assuming it's a newer truck somewhere around 6 to 7 liters. Likely tunned up with aftermarket parts making like 40 to 50.psi of boost. You have to realize that many liters pumping that cubic volume is like the same as a natural aspirated engine of 30 liters. So of course it's going to make over a 1000 foot pounds and not need to spin.

It doesn't matter WHAT fuel you use or what BOOST you make. The end result is TORQUE period. I make 425 ft lbs of TORQUE using naturally aspirated GAS from 1800 RPM flat to 5250 RPM. Please stop making excuses. You could perform what that truck did with 1000 HP at high RPM and a higher gearing, but you'd run out of gas LONG before the event was over. Why bother when you can do it with HIGH TORQUE at lower gearing. IF you spend a lot of time ABOVE 5252 RPM then you'll need the HP. Before that, it's completely worthless because you're relying on TORQUE. Again, if you NEED to spend a lot of time above 5252, in my opinion for heavy Bronco, then you're geared incorrectly. You substitute your high RPM to gain power to make up for your lack of gearing because you need LONG gears in between shifts. That's the only reason. So, exactly how much time do you spend above 5250? If you're having to get to past 5252 to make 425 HP, I'll outperform you every time. In snow, mud, high speed, runs, low speed grunts. Physics and math don't lie. High HP only helps for MAYBE the last 1500 rpm unless you've designed your engine to live up to 8000 rpm, but then you'll have nothing below 4000 rpm. If you're geared so that you NEED that last 1500, well, the problem is your gearing. Look at ANY dyno. Now look at the last dyno, the Ford Racing 306. Shift the curves up 50 on the y axis and left 1000 RPM on the X axis and that's basically my 347. Do I care about what happens above 5000 RPM? Nope. I've shifted to the next gear and am pulling at 1800 RPM what you do at 6000, and I'm pulling it for the next 3400 RPM. What do you have? Are you revving 8600 RPM to match it? doubt it. I'm far ahead on anything you can do with a 347 that needs to rev past 5252 to make power. Now, is there a situation when you would? Sure. if you don't need the power low down because you're running a 3500 lb mustang with 22 inch tires and 4.11 gears. You need to spin the motor high because you're spinning those tiny tires really fast and moving much less weight and air resistance. A high winding 347 with HP that comes on after 5000 RPM works great in that situation. Not so much for a Bronco with 33+ tires. But you are free to think what you want.

 

[Broncobowsher]

It doesn't matter WHAT fuel you use or what BOOST you make. The end result is TORQUE period. I make 425 ft lbs of TORQUE using naturally aspirated GAS from 1800 RPM flat to 5250 RPM. Please stop making excuses. You could perform what that truck did with 1000 HP at high RPM and a higher gearing, but you'd run out of gas LONG before the event was over. Why bother when you can do it with HIGH TORQUE at lower gearing. IF you spend a lot of time ABOVE 5252 RPM then you'll need the HP. Before that, it's completely worthless because you're relying on TORQUE. Again, if you NEED to spend a lot of time above 5252, then you're geared incorrectly. You substitute your high RPM to gain power to make up for your lack of gearing. That's the only reason. So, exactly how much time do you spend above 5250? If you're having to get to past 5252 to make 425 HP, I'll outperform you every time. In snow, mud, high speed, runs, low speed grunts. Physics and math don't lie. High HP only helps for MAYBE the last 1500 rpm unless you've designed your engine to live up to 8000 rpm. Look at ANY dyno.

Off subject. The thread is about twisted wedge heads. If you two want to keep arguing this crap go start a new thread the rest of us can ignore.

 

[AZ73]

Off subject. The thread is about twisted wedge heads. If you two want to keep arguing this crap go start a new thread the rest of us can ignore.

On topic. My Twisted wedge heads were built as I described for the reasons you think are off topic. I've explained why I chose them in detail. If you don't care to understand my Twisted heads choice, skip my comments. It's easy to do. A motor is more than the heads and the heads are chosen for the motor. Sorry you find it not important. But as I'm getting questions, others do.

 

[68ford]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrbMQqlgTOl/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=2me6d5pod4jd

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPjb_WtAa7j/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=15o1q8omxpkn

Desert racing, shift at 7000 regularly and love compression braking. No diesels race Baja competitively end of story.