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Electrical issues: Can someone help guide me to troubleshoot?

BroncoLew

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Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Messages
40
Loc.
Alabama
1976 302 3 spd. Rebuilt/non original 302 with Edlebrock 500CFM 4 barrel. Duraspark II ignition (blue grommet) replaced ICM, replaced voltage regulator, new alternator.

Bouncing ammeter gauge when idle and bounces more when driving. If I turn lights on it REALLY starts bouncing while driving.
Headlights work and footswitch turns them off
No turn signals but hazard lights work
Marker lights work
Tail lights and brake lights work
Left turn indicator always on
Dash lights work
Windshield wipers work


New Alternator (Model 7078A) with 2 connectors on the back. No ground seen to voltage regulator.
Engine to negative post in grounded

I've added some pictures that I took a little while back but I can take more when I get home if needed.

Also, I found a connector missing on the back LH side of the engine. Could that be for an automatic trans neutral safety switch? Mine is a 3 spd.

AltRelayRegulator.jpg MissingConnector.jpg RegRelay.jpg
 

Johnnyb

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Nov 19, 2001
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Flagstaff
Wish I knew your system better. Have you put a voltmeter on the battery? Try to get readouts at idle and with lights on. That might help. Bronco ammeters were notorious for bouncing.
 

Johnnyb

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Nov 19, 2001
Messages
799
Loc.
Flagstaff
1976 302 3 spd. Rebuilt/non original 302 with Edlebrock 500CFM 4 barrel. Duraspark II ignition (blue grommet) replaced ICM, replaced voltage regulator, new alternator.

Bouncing ammeter gauge when idle and bounces more when driving. If I turn lights on it REALLY starts bouncing while driving.
Headlights work and footswitch turns them off
No turn signals but hazard lights work
Marker lights work
Tail lights and brake lights work
Left turn indicator always on
Dash lights work
Windshield wipers work


New Alternator (Model 7078A) with 2 connectors on the back. No ground seen to voltage regulator.
Engine to negative post in grounded

I've added some pictures that I took a little while back but I can take more when I get home if needed.

Also, I found a connector missing on the back LH side of the engine. Could that be for an automatic trans neutral safety switch? Mine is a 3 spd.

View attachment 910452 View attachment 910453 View attachment 910454
"Also, I found a connector missing on the back LH side of the engine. Could that be for an automatic trans neutral safety switch? Mine is a 3 spd."

That's probably your reverse light switch, or possibly the brake warning switch on the frame rail below the steering column.
 

Wild horse 75

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May 9, 2023
Messages
358
Loc.
BC
Those ground cables at the battery look really bad. You shouldn’t ever jam 2 cables into a bigger lug. That’s just asking for corrosion. I’d start with new grounds. And do lots of them. Battery to engine. Battery to frame. Battery to body. Engine to frame. Body to frame in several places. And don’t make them too small. Should never go smaller than 4ga cable for any one of the main battery to frame or engine. Especially if you have lots of extra lights or accessories. And make sure the alternator case is seeing a good ground. It can be through the bracket but make sure it’s good. Bad grounds cause all kinds of issues. Same goes for the turn signals and the headlights. They need good grounds. After all these years there’s going to be corrosion where there wasn’t originally and that’s creating resistance to ground.
 

Viperwolf1

Contributor
electron whisperer
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
24,326
1976 302 3 spd. Rebuilt/non original 302 with Edlebrock 500CFM 4 barrel. Duraspark II ignition (blue grommet) replaced ICM, replaced voltage regulator, new alternator.

Bouncing ammeter gauge when idle and bounces more when driving. If I turn lights on it REALLY starts bouncing while driving. - worn out ammeter
Headlights work and footswitch turns them off - high or low beams burned out or maybe bad high beam switch
No turn signals but hazard lights work - maybe bad turn signal flasher, swap with hazard flasher and see
Marker lights work
Tail lights and brake lights work
Left turn indicator always on - with lights on? bad ground at front left turn light
Dash lights work
Windshield wipers work


New Alternator (Model 7078A) with 2 connectors on the back. No ground seen to voltage regulator. - the connection is a metal tab where the whole alternator harness is supposed to be bolted to the back of the alternator, I see your's is not attached. It's attached to a wire that goes to voltage regulator mounting screw.
Engine to negative post in grounded

I've added some pictures that I took a little while back but I can take more when I get home if needed.

Also, I found a connector missing on the back LH side of the engine. Could that be for an automatic trans neutral safety switch? Mine is a 3 spd. - no, NSS/backup lights is 4 pin square connector just to right. This connector is for the emissions equip in this diagram. It was not installed in all Broncos.

 

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BroncoLew

BroncoLew

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Jan 19, 2023
Messages
40
Loc.
Alabama
Those ground cables at the battery look really bad. You shouldn’t ever jam 2 cables into a bigger lug. That’s just asking for corrosion. I’d start with new grounds. And do lots of them. Battery to engine. Battery to frame. Battery to body. Engine to frame. Body to frame in several places. And don’t make them too small. Should never go smaller than 4ga cable for any one of the main battery to frame or engine. Especially if you have lots of extra lights or accessories. And make sure the alternator case is seeing a good ground. It can be through the bracket but make sure it’s good. Bad grounds cause all kinds of issues. Same goes for the turn signals and the headlights. They need good grounds. After all these years there’s going to be corrosion where there wasn’t originally and that’s creating resistance to ground.
The blue cable is the ground for the starter relay. The picture makes it look like they are crammed together but on the other picture of the starter relay you can see it separate.
 

Madgyver

Bronco Madman
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Messages
14,701
I would start with grounds on every thing that needs it. bulbs all good and in working condition. and check each individual circuit, we just went through this after a short that blew up most electrical components. Battery, ignition module, bulbs, haedlights, coil, alternator all had to be replaced.
 

DirtDonk

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Bronco Guru
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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,645
Your alternator-to-regulator ground wire is enclosed in the molded rubber "strain relief" thingy that holds the wires together at the back of the alternator.
There should be a metal ring-tab sticking out of one side that gets attached to the alternator case at one of the grounding studs. This is the ground for the regulator.
Up at the other end, at the regulator itself, there should be a small gauge wire with a ring terminal that gets installed under one of the attaching screws of the regulator to the body.

In your second pic, up at the back of the engine, is a 3-wire flat connector that looks to have a broken wire. This connector is often Red on earlier models, but Ford must have got tired of the extra expense of the color by '76!
The wires are usually for ignition coil positive (Red w/green), water temp and oil pressure. I thought a '76 would have had another wire or two, but I guess not.
On the body side of this connector you should see a Brown wire combine with the Red w/green wire. This is the "I" wire from the starter relay/solenoid.

Generally speaking, your wiring is in VERY rough shape. Not necessarily from abuse, but for sure it's from old age!
And though they seem to be working now, all of your main battery and starter cables are suspect at this point. They're older, the ends have "opened up" and are exposing the conductor strands to the outside world.
I would replace them with new. And if you go with the same store bought type, seal the ends with heat-shrink tubing to keep the weather out for the next 40 years or so.

Make sure the alternator and regulator have a good ground connection like they did originally.
Make sure that the mating surface for the alternator-to-engine is clean and that the threads of the bolt and hole are not rusty. If needed, clean them all.
Make sure that the regulator stays mounted to the body until the battery is disconnected. Don't move it with the battery connected.
With the battery disconnected (of course!) remove the wires from the relay and wire brush all the threads and connection points. Including for now the cable lugs at the ends. They're obviously rusty just looking at the pics, so need a good cleaning. But all the more reason to get rid of the old and get new ones.
You don't need a battery-to-body ground that is that big. A simple 10ga wire is sufficient. The battery cable sized wire you have at the starter relay right now is certainly overkill in most cases. Although I like overkill when it comes to battery cables and grounds! But there is such a thing as actual overkill...
Where does that ground for the starter relay/solenoid go? Looks like it goes rearward out of the picture. Where is it attached at the other end?

Find out what that broken wire is. Do all of your gauges work?

And lastly, to your original question about the bouncing ammeter, there are a few things you can do to test what's going on.
1. With the engine running, test the voltage at the battery to see if the voltage swings like the ammeter needle bounces.
2. Do the same at the starter relay post where the Black wire attaches next to the battery cable.
3. When the engine is NOT running, tap the glass over the meter with your finger a few times.
If the needle bounces, then it's not the alternator but the gauge itself that is getting old. The original dampening action is not sufficient anymore.
If it does not bounce, then make sure you do all of the other things to see if that will cure the bouncing needle. If not, you may just want to go to a volt-meter instead.

Paul
 
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BroncoLew

BroncoLew

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Messages
40
Loc.
Alabama
Your alternator-to-regulator ground wire is enclosed in the molded rubber "strain relief" thingy that holds the wires together at the back of the alternator.
There should be a metal ring-tab sticking out of one side that gets attached to the alternator case at one of the grounding studs. This is the ground for the regulator.
Up at the other end, at the regulator itself, there should be a small gauge wire with a ring terminal that gets installed under one of the attaching screws of the regulator to the body.
I attached the ground for the alternator and confirmed that the voltage regulator is grounded.

You don't need a battery-to-body ground that is that big. A simple 10ga wire is sufficient. The battery cable sized wire you have at the starter relay right now is certainly overkill in most cases. Although I like overkill when it comes to battery cables and grounds! But there is such a thing as actual overkill...
Where does that ground for the starter relay/solenoid go? Looks like it goes rearward out of the picture. Where is it attached at the other end?
I have a couple of braided grounding straps at the house. Would one of those work for battery negative to fender or firewall? I'll have to check once I get home but I believe that blue ground goes back to the starter.
With the engine running, test the voltage at the battery to see if the voltage swings like the ammeter needle bounces.
2. Do the same at the starter relay post where the Black wire attaches next to the battery cable.
I have this meter: https://www.harborfreight.com/7-fun...U14YunnSukZ8x2QoySPmnnCMjUQmZFgRoCnvAQAvD_BwE

Can you explain to me like I'm five how to do the testing?
 

DirtDonk

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Messages
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I have a couple of braided grounding straps at the house. Would one of those work for battery negative to fender or firewall? I'll have to check once I get home but I believe that blue ground goes back to the starter.
Sorry, been away from the computer for awhile...
Braided straps are great! Just perfect for this. But what size are they?
The typical braided strap you'd see for auxiliary grounds would be one of the smaller type. A pretty small one equals a pretty good size regular cable if I remember.
If they're the big fat 1" thick type that's got a battery lug at one end, you probably won't use it.
Post pics of what you have when you can.

The ground cable going down near the starter motor is also great. It's really kind of a "best practice" even.
But it still looks like it's been there for a long time, so it isn't out of line to think about replacing it even if it still appears to work.
I see you have a quick-disconnect battery lug. You can get a "switch-to-starter" cable as they're often labeled, that has eylets at both ends. One end to the engine near the starter, one end to the quick-disconnect, and done.
I use 2ga as a go-to size nowadays. You can get away with 6ga like Ford did when these things were new, but whenever replacing cables I use 2ga or larger.
But still get at least 4ga and find one the right length that also has the secondary/auxiliary ground wire coming off of it.

I see you also have a body ground there at the battery lug. Or at least it looks like a ground going down behind the battery and presumably to the core support.
This is great too. Maybe just add another one of the same size and run it to the starter relay mounting bolt.

If you have smaller braided straps, or some Black 10ga wire, put one between the back of the engine and the firewall sheet-metal, and the other I’m not sure yet. Maybe between the engine and the frame.

You could kill a couple of birds with one stone while changing battery cables. The new main ground cable can run straight from the battery down to the engine block near the starter motor. where it sounds like yours is now. The secondary ground can go to the starter relay mounting bolt, but you should keep your existing one to the radiator core support.

I have this meter: https://www.harborfreight.com/7-fun...U14YunnSukZ8x2QoySPmnnCMjUQmZFgRoCnvAQAvD_BwE

Can you explain to me like I'm five how to do the testing?
Haha! Yep, not a problem. I've been using this type of meter (started with analog and now use mostly digital like the one in your link) since I was about five, and still don't know all the functions of these things!
But we can sure check voltage.

Insert the black test lead into the "COM" hole at the bottom of the meter.
Insert the red test lead into the V-upside down horseshoe-ma (volts-ohms-miliamps) hole. (sorry, didn't have time to look up the keystrokes for the symbol for ohms).
Turn the ON/OFF switch to ON.
Turn the dial to the 20v on the DC-Volts scale there on the upper left.
You use the level nearest the one you need, one step above. So if it had a 5v notch and a 20v notch, and a 100v notch, you'd use 20 because the readings will be easy to see and compare to the 12-15 that you're looking for.

Place the red lead on the positive battery stud. Place the black lead tip on the negative battery stud.
The reading in the window will (or should be at least) your precise battery voltage at the moment. Usually somewhere between 12.0 and 12.6 volts while sitting. Maybe up to 13 for a few minutes after it's been running and charging.
With the engine running, do it again and see what the voltage goes up to. Should be in the neighborhood of 14.5v or so.

That's a start at least!
Oh, and the ohms settings on the dial come in very handy sometimes (a lot!) when you're playing around on a Bronco.

Have fun.

Paul
 
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BroncoLew

BroncoLew

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I see you also have a body ground there at the battery lug. Or at least it looks like a ground going down behind the battery and presumably to the core support.
This is great too. Maybe just add another one of the same size and run it to the starter relay mounting bolt.
I chased it and it goes all the way back to the sending unit.

I will post more of what I have and what I find once I get back from the beach for vacation.

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this. Once I get back I will dive back into this. I am getting closer to just getting a Painless or American Autowire kit. I also need to get some more pictures uploaded here so I will try to do that tomorrow.
 

Wild horse 75

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I chased it and it goes all the way back to the sending unit.

I will post more of what I have and what I find once I get back from the beach for vacation.

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this. Once I get back I will dive back into this. I am getting closer to just getting a Painless or American Autowire kit. I also need to get some more pictures uploaded here so I will try to do that tomorrow.
If you’re already leaning towards getting a replacement harness kit it might be best to just make sure your alternator is charging then just rip out all the old worn out stuff and replace it with brand new. Then while you’re at it you can redo all your battery cables and add some body grounds. American autowire makes a really slick copper ground kit that uses cable for the main ground rather than the body and frame. You get little terminal blocks where you can attach a number of smaller ground wires and that’s connected to a larger ground cable. I think you get three of the terminal blocks so one in the back one behind the dash and one up front.
 

DirtDonk

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I chased it and it goes all the way back to the sending unit.
The fuel tank sending unit? If not, what other sender?
If so, then you definitely need a body ground from the battery. And probably a frame ground too.
No need to run a wire the whole length of the vehicle for this simple, but critical function.

Paul
 

73azbronco

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I have had three in a row, bad old school voltage regulators. Might tryu another regulator and alternator, if it doesnt improve, take the alternator back, make sure they take returns. I'd throw this out, unless you want the period correct stuff, and you do need to fix the wiring and ground issues, I'd say throw on a 2g alternator, lowest amp one you can find say 65 amp, any more and you risk frying the harness through the back of the ammeter, all the charge goes through that. 2g going to be hard to find a v belt driven one.
 
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