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Coil and bumper/winch question

work765

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
279
Quick question I can't seem to find an answer with the search function.

If I was to get a Hanson bumper and winch. Would I have to get taller coils in the front to balance that weight?
I'm currently running new 3.5" wild horses all around. And I currently have a beefy bumper upfront. But no winch.

Thanks
 
Last edited:

broncbuster

Sr. Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
414
Not sure how much this will help, but, BC offers "winch" coils. Every size they offer also has a "winch" version available. I asked how that works. They told me that the winch coils have the same rate as the standard coils but are 1/2" taller. So, going by that a winch will drop the front end about 1/2".
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
Another thing to consider is that all winches do not weigh the same.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Our coils will likely drop a little. How much depends on, like said, which winch you use, and how much, if any, they've dropped already. Likely not very much from just the bumper I wouldn't think (about 65 lbs if I remember?), but here again, it might depend on which Hanson you have.

The variable rate coils do have a softer initial rate for that nice ride, but that's a compromise when adding more than a few pounds to the front.
Might as well put your winch on and find out I suppose, but you can always put about 85 lbs worth of "stuff" on the front end to see what you get ahead of time.

That 85 lbs is just a general semi-average weight for a winch and steel wire rope.
You can save a substantial amount of weight on a winch install by using one of the fiber ropes. Much lighter.

Paul
 

Z Bronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,138
Not sure if these pictures will help. New WH 3 1/2" suspension with Hanson Bumpers front (3/16" plate) and rear (1/4 Plate, double swing w 35" spare). The winch is a Warn 8274 and is on in these pictures. There are many parts missing on the Bronco at this moment (radiator, front accessories, and the gas tanks are empty), I will know more after many miles are put on. Hope this helps.
IMG_2284.jpg

IMG_2289.jpg
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
Be interesting to see the before and after pics Z Bronco. Meaning after some miles.
That winch is 150 lbs of beef on the front end, but the rear springs will likely settle some too.
So who knows? You might just end up with the perfect stance for your tastes!
Hopefully anyway;)

Paul
 

Digger556

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
793
Quick question I can't seem to find an answer with the search function.

If I was to get a Hanson bumper and winch. Would I have to get taller coils in the front to balance that weight?
I'm currently running new 3.5" wild horses all around. And I currently have a beefy bumper upfront. But no winch.

Thanks

Simple answer: NO


Look at the above diagram. Going from memory, a winch and bumper center their weight about 24" forward of the front axle centerline. If your rig had 2000 lbs of sprung weight front and 1600 rear, adding 150lbs of winch and bumper would leverage an additional 190 lbs on the front axle and remove 40 lbs from the rear axle.

Since you already have a heavy bumper, you're effectively only adding the weight of the winch, ~ 80lbs, so the net effect on the front axle is about 95 lbs additional load. Divide that by 2 and that is only 47.5lbs additional per spring. If your springs were linear rate, they are probably 200lb/in or higher. that means that your front end would settle 1/4" or less with the addition of the winch.

Conclusion: Do nothing, a 1/4" is not very noticeable.


Now if you want to get more technical, 150lbs of additional weight hanging 24 inches out front would leverage ~190lbs of extra weight on the front axle. To properly compensate for this, you actually want a spring with ~10% higher rate to keep your ride frequency the same. A taller spring will make the truck sit properly, but ride rate will still drop and the truck will feel more "bouncy" and "rolly".

Most people aren't going to notice and again, given that you are really only adding the weight of the winch, I would leave the springs alone for now.
 
OP
OP
W

work765

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
279
Simple answer: NO





Look at the above diagram. Going from memory, a winch and bumper center their weight about 24" forward of the front axle centerline. If your rig had 2000 lbs of sprung weight front and 1600 rear, adding 150lbs of winch and bumper would leverage an additional 190 lbs on the front axle and remove 40 lbs from the rear axle.



Since you already have a heavy bumper, you're effectively only adding the weight of the winch, ~ 80lbs, so the net effect on the front axle is about 95 lbs additional load. Divide that by 2 and that is only 47.5lbs additional per spring. If your springs were linear rate, they are probably 200lb/in or higher. that means that your front end would settle 1/4" or less with the addition of the winch.



Conclusion: Do nothing, a 1/4" is not very noticeable.





Now if you want to get more technical, 150lbs of additional weight hanging 24 inches out front would leverage ~190lbs of extra weight on the front axle. To properly compensate for this, you actually want a spring with ~10% higher rate to keep your ride frequency the same. A taller spring will make the truck sit properly, but ride rate will still drop and the truck will feel more "bouncy" and "rolly".



Most people aren't going to notice and again, given that you are really only adding the weight of the winch, I would leave the springs alone for now.


Wow! Impressive :) thanks for the thorough answer. Also if I get a front front bumper. I will most likely get a rear bumper and spare tire carrier. (This would help with that 1/4") And I like what Paul said about being to able to use that fancy rope instead to reduce weight even further.

Thanks guys!
 

Digger556

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
793
Wow! Impressive :) thanks for the thorough answer. Also if I get a front front bumper. I will most likely get a rear bumper and spare tire carrier. (This would help with that 1/4") And I like what Paul said about being to able to use that fancy rope instead to reduce weight even further.

Thanks guys!

Yes, same rules apply for the rear. I'm in a similar boat. I built the rear bumper and tire carrier first, so my truck sits slightly nose-high. Once I get the front winch and bumper mounted everything should level out and hit my ride rate targets.
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
Bumping this back up.

What about the extra added weight of a 351W engine in addition to a winch?

Originally I was leaning toward progressive rate springs, but the added weight would seem to take up the softest riding part of them.
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,916
I have a Windsor and a heavy bumper and a winch still running a steel hood and full top.

My Duff Coils are sitting right at their 3.5" advertised height.

BUT....They were about 4"+ for the first week or so then they settled down to 3.5".

If you already have a heavy bumper adding the winch isn't going to make much of a difference especially with rope instead of cable.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,796
What Digger said. I put a full steel bumper and winch in front of my Jeep expecting 1/2-1 inch drop. It dropped nothing. In fact could flex the springs and get more variation in measurement by bouncing the bumper up and down and having the shock stop the movement at various points, than any before or after winch add measurement.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
47,345
An easy test is to just stand on the front bumper. Obviously a stock bumper is hard to stand on safely, but if you're careful you can get up there while someone measures the Bronco's before and after heights.
This is not scientific or exact, but it's close enough as they say. And saves you the worry of what's going to happen after you start spending money.

If you happen to weigh in at between 150 and 200 lbs, you also happen to be right in there with most bumper and winch combinations.
However much/little the front end drops with you on the front is going to let you know if you need more spring or don't need to worry about it.

Paul
 

onebadd73

Sr. Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
376
Loc.
Moreno Valley, Ca.
I have BC Bronco 5 1/2 winch coils up front and I'm running a Duff plate bumper and Warn winch with steel cable. My rig sits level..
 

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