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Frame Painting/Coating

callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
Hey guys
I know there's quite a bit of info out there about painting/coating the frame, but I need you guy's opinion on something a little more specific. I have another build thread going HERE if you want to check that out.

Originally, I was going to freshen up the frame/suspension for the project. However, like anything else I do, that snowballed into a full on overhaul of the suspension and axles. I had already prepped, "undercoated", and painted the frame, but now that I have repaired a bunch of rust spots on the frame and cut off/welded on some new brackets I am almost ready to coat it. I really want to use a roll on product like POR-15, but I read they recommend that go over bare metal. Previously I used some Rust Converting primer and an aerosol undercoat which is still on 90% of the frame.

What do you guys think will happen if I roll the POR-15 over those coats I already laid down?

If I can't do the POR-15 over my current paint job do y'all have any suggestions on a good roll on coating that will stand the test of time? I really don't want to grind down the whole frame just to redo it!

Here's a shot of the frame after I painted/undercoated it:
 

AZ73

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
3,541
It's all about surface prep. For example KBS Rustseal (similar to POR) will stick to the paint if you degrease and sand the surface with 400 grit. But, if you didn't prep your original paint correctly for the metal, well......
 

JR.BONNER

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
21
Loc.
Springfield
Ditto on AZ73.... It seems that no matter what product you go with its all about the correct prep work. Doing a complete resto as well and didn't want to hear the same thing when I was at that point but glad I took the time to clean the frame off down to bare steel. All I can say about the Por-15 is follow the direction's to the letter. I did and it has turned out great so far.... still missing some arm hair I believe ... the stuff really sticks so take time to mask things off... Good luck.
 

NicksTrix

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 1, 2001
Messages
6,386
don't forget to repair the rotten rear body mount hole areas.
i've had good luck with the KBS products
 
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callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
It's all about surface prep. For example KBS Rustseal (similar to POR) will stick to the paint if you degrease and sand the surface with 400 grit. But, if you didn't prep your original paint correctly for the metal, well......

Thanks for the info. I did quite a bit of de-greasing, power washing and hours with wire and flap wheels so I got it pretty good the first go round and I'm pretty confident with the coats I put on already. However, I prepped it while all of the suspension was on so I can probably get to some of the harder to reach spots now.

What kind of surface am I looking for when prepping the paint I already laid down? Obviously bare metal is fairly smooth so do I want to shoot for that? I just really don't want to grind off 6 coats of paint and undercoating haha
 

5001craig

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
1,180
My EB was undercoated when new. It really helped keep the frame in good shape. I took it down to bare steel (which was a fun time), repaired some rot under shock/spring mounts and then went with all the KBS steps. I was very happy with the KBS products. All the details are in my build thread in my sig. Here's a few pics:

4IAttWs8cmt05dj8pjV78JI8lJ3iJajeC-uT9s6AWWi2uxxB_a2l2lo80kraq5EcJAYe0oVP3xb5kRfo8K8YqwfyEYdco45XJEez0su3aV4fAVU1pMLyyBToci2Dq1MtpoYSWcnp1re7HTRIUzVFIfVnBE_E1afVz8AEEXB1w3Nsz5WftffNrm6M7it28Q7qoKKbvdK-YfRuGFGVRCcVWB9FVIFWwO6tpJw8zw5PNs3doAaPLVvrsJUKmirML0PCIuhg4Y8fKJGKODK8JRSq47DyRtmeQNapq-a2X8brQxJPSWg6SVEiZHP9ysZ4Orl9cBTBlTUv8biJMj2jKm8DxVDb9YP21PqFvca2DPc-Aj2acUR8cR8P1XUDuOyBpLnacB4ROjtCDZixbKQbYc_EOhE6rXw4N2SvN3zXpzl5YqnrtjFNcwjNRoi6bwysNpf7339V2fqNQLajyujzCJAJAs8CKp4s7lGDDrqi1I9O8euejik6TwedGOd1bfuaXsT-egp3nC08iEfdK5E7gIyeCvkhEhiTYsnf7cJzctrMzkIJsH2OI0DV2CjdC17ZyKUj_kCSt037d0mtfc7qXTGVFCUXByI9GRn4bPRfkIU_=w513-h912-no


yDUscZFSBaupIpb9onixgoQ1Y-YwkqJBRp-BreI2hkC-Sm0hEeSwVG6VBIC0-TlokpsFAfQ8GkKa0y284NFtfjC3MW6WWnVzreJWWDBpGLAuxVEXpB7wbALAoGla-85ujyFu-njKAhalW_dMu_R07mdI2cy7rmgypvKOVcZ_XkZmJ_Lxg5_ffWU9wmIsvapF8rclzfQZiQY3HFU_EybnH2eey0E64jgrKKlUg_Am3WTLV43KRQ8e9xLGoiQEkppsrhaLxjmra-eDTW7Z0_Giv6rVnGs1A0GRg0u2DQ2EZLaywvWYRUzrAXChouFkFnl5ei7yh-ee9IO8uQRNJ_CGwaJjeEUuOP2joiqeyPl4JsBolzT8T4GtgkcYClOz_CPSJyVJiiuWgUJADoKQ41OEDhSSeyXP5uP3R-7vvSEi3ruk3OFgCF_VJ6-2wETaOC5MgBPmn4bhTKmq5zL2rR2Efl_Pc2T8pbK-KNlE3Eqn-4dWGcXt1_xP1x-us2QhL_ddyocoSgyJBmHktz8WeQXGHZg4v6kThvepRp9mpSP5DgMLopLe37wJBL-lOlkh2kaCKSCdfZY2SxueaEaa2GC9wc5IpZcbZvw7YH4uDYPv=w1622-h912-no


BAEzxrZEMIDWkWFjJWZkLRYSriGc9zjgwLqzzO2IaRmjZMlsJg8wVrSoKu11npCEasNxZUvyIoKq-Q_xS1JokARLkb8oKnKNhBkvtNxsUiEu5nHzb7Kbo_i9z3YHRgvhnYq3d6wfysXDQ7hXRuV1HDIoxnNO2KqVNecGzRgLvfgm3K83b4vqDWqgTfnQGtjwcc9BBicpmF1BrS96asKvgwGA7yWQWzqlgaV1q1Z9l-ygoVjWzsAwMjC46OWzXMgMQFQq_CfNdbJtHhs6TkeZ0XgyppppQBNY13DBeODME6mW9W5vwphmunDU9mhMISUflBXBMZpkv8AvMq8lXVm6KInrlpQZCuIrnYkvY2JVeAl_ehif6EqEvDFqcFXnD2jfGzB61Q2iwfc_wtlcU-JtxClM0xEQ45gag4bbUnuMbQE2TcbyYIx490Z87e2Ruc92T_k7ltsxfnul1d1xUeixtIw3TFY5_3vM1tCcc_bYzKZs_7z0HznVFZodQZUuWDxgS1xYXNJVM7cXYE_bnAwoRi8TEwvmoM4nzjBDD8-mRXEcv10YiP3c8Be6dqs6G5IjyvwEQEOG24gqwzzqJ0rGw4UbccWUVVYIkFNFYaW2=w513-h912-no
 

American180

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
184
Loc.
Mount Washington, Ky
Thanks for the info. I did quite a bit of de-greasing, power washing and hours with wire and flap wheels so I got it pretty good the first go round and I'm pretty confident with the coats I put on already. However, I prepped it while all of the suspension was on so I can probably get to some of the harder to reach spots now.

What kind of surface am I looking for when prepping the paint I already laid down? Obviously bare metal is fairly smooth so do I want to shoot for that? I just really don't want to grind off 6 coats of paint and undercoating haha

You have to prep the surface according to POR 15 directions. Just because you did a good job last time doesn't matter. POR 15 needs bare metal or rust to adhere too. If you paint it over anything else, it could and probably will peal off over time. If you don't want to go that far with prep again, then look for a different product. Might be best to look into some epoxy primers and paint.
 
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callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
You have to prep the surface according to POR 15 directions. Just because you did a good job last time doesn't matter. POR 15 needs bare metal or rust to adhere too. If you paint it over anything else, it could and probably will peal off over time. If you don't want to go that far with prep again, then look for a different product. Might be best to look into some epoxy primers and paint.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I guess I need to either get to researching or get to grinding.

5001craig, what method did you use to strip it? Keep in mind I'm in a one car garage so super strong solvents and sand blasting probably wont work :( Yours looks amazing though!!
 

durwood71

Jr. Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
89
I used Van Sickle tractor primer and paint on my frame. Had frame sandblasted then primed and painted it. Looks great and when you add the hardener to the paint it is tough as nails. AND only $30 per gallon!
 

5001craig

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
1,180
That's exactly what I was thinking. I guess I need to either get to researching or get to grinding.

5001craig, what method did you use to strip it? Keep in mind I'm in a one car garage so super strong solvents and sand blasting probably wont work :( Yours looks amazing though!!

For most all of the rust proof coating (which I would guess would be similar to what you want to remove), I used a wire wheel. This stuff goes everywhere. Light pressure so as not to build up heat turning it to goo and move around. Wear hearing and eye protection (glasses and get a good face shield--I went with this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VXXUWK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it worked well). Then I went with flapper wheels for the rust I found. Bought a bunch of them from a vendor on here. Can't remember what they were called. Then I went with a torch to cut-out the cancer I found after removing the rear shock and spring mounts (I would imagine a lot of trucks have the rust in these spots as the dirt that collects in these areas holds water--they just don't know because these brackets are not normally removed like I did). Other than these areas the rust proofing did a great job. This is what I found after removing a shock mount (top and side of frame are thin or rusted through):

ogoll8Wbad6A4KzViyd1GzLLDEmJ4cTUYlmcIXGF2ULqaAfD5LGiHgqzeISFAJCYBZucF59q-wQtegrB2i-x3EgcxbPieH73pdkhwOnh0mbJLNz7wUi_VIHG-raopr9T8j6S3uWykNcJTrW4Bzgtw2IOKdyI6OC5Fvy53dQH6kh_lWjnECSJe4wbkOdUhM-fmtUe71Ikg5B3PzrmrD2E-C0VDvh0Uw_EWV18YOP0nYN-CJKj6WVj_ewVXUKTEfDul7FKzPZWawtv5y9SRlW9fWq-fqYmayO303egbZFOtYEM8SphRu1BqiTpsjdiA31Kypd0vpQo30YUVsyXiadGcxVrfsxuBWBtcHjvPeZZRMMZ8xThfuPm2TaUEdNPHgVolsceLls1LT5sSiJWRM7cPfycADP2mYxRZlzlqDBRqJuiIIsqXAbTyiD3f72_In38lvzm510cwnkHfg85wolzraRwVqzA0xAG-zCVRpdoLCvyJxuYOSov0M1XrinbPsazh6X17v2tZCyOodbMZqVoRFnCgQcM7ibpnDtvTB0PSquH7wdDN7Z7DQc5oISS42SwFQApuJFqCCduPfsFUW8iSBurSJVK4FyjCn2J6iq0=w1714-h964-no


Like I said, I tried to document what I did in my build thread in my sig. Check it out.

One thing I didn't do was rough-up the rust encapsulator coat prior to the top coat. It wouldn't have taken much but I was working like crazy to meet a deadline. Nevertheless, the top coat adhered very well to the rust encapsulator (white) coat with a 24 hour dry between these two coats. I've dropped wrenches and all is good. I'm probably just second guessing myself.
 

AZ73

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
3,541
Thanks for the info. I did quite a bit of de-greasing, power washing and hours with wire and flap wheels so I got it pretty good the first go round and I'm pretty confident with the coats I put on already. However, I prepped it while all of the suspension was on so I can probably get to some of the harder to reach spots now.

What kind of surface am I looking for when prepping the paint I already laid down? Obviously bare metal is fairly smooth so do I want to shoot for that? I just really don't want to grind off 6 coats of paint and undercoating haha

You don't want smooth. You want a rough surface the POR/KBS can bite into. That's why you need to sand your current surface with 400 for KBS or whatever grit POR suggests. BTW, a red scotchbrite is about 400-420 and works well. Both KBS and POR (and maybe rustbullet, a sponsor here on the left but I don't know their product) will finish smooth as they are kind of a "self-leveling" product. My KBS coat on my frame looks like powdercoat - none of the underlying media blast or sanding shows.
 
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callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
For most all of the rust proof coating (which I would guess would be similar to what you want to remove), I used a wire wheel. This stuff goes everywhere. Light pressure so as not to build up heat turning it to goo and move around. Wear hearing and eye protection (glasses and get a good face shield--I went with this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VXXUWK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it worked well). Then I went with flapper wheels for the rust I found. Bought a bunch of them from a vendor on here. Can't remember what they were called. Then I went with a torch to cut-out the cancer I found after removing the rear shock and spring mounts (I would imagine a lot of trucks have the rust in these spots as the dirt that collects in these areas holds water--they just don't know because these brackets are not normally removed like I did). Other than these areas the rust proofing did a great job. This is what I found after removing a shock mount (top and side of frame are thin or rusted through):

ogoll8Wbad6A4KzViyd1GzLLDEmJ4cTUYlmcIXGF2ULqaAfD5LGiHgqzeISFAJCYBZucF59q-wQtegrB2i-x3EgcxbPieH73pdkhwOnh0mbJLNz7wUi_VIHG-raopr9T8j6S3uWykNcJTrW4Bzgtw2IOKdyI6OC5Fvy53dQH6kh_lWjnECSJe4wbkOdUhM-fmtUe71Ikg5B3PzrmrD2E-C0VDvh0Uw_EWV18YOP0nYN-CJKj6WVj_ewVXUKTEfDul7FKzPZWawtv5y9SRlW9fWq-fqYmayO303egbZFOtYEM8SphRu1BqiTpsjdiA31Kypd0vpQo30YUVsyXiadGcxVrfsxuBWBtcHjvPeZZRMMZ8xThfuPm2TaUEdNPHgVolsceLls1LT5sSiJWRM7cPfycADP2mYxRZlzlqDBRqJuiIIsqXAbTyiD3f72_In38lvzm510cwnkHfg85wolzraRwVqzA0xAG-zCVRpdoLCvyJxuYOSov0M1XrinbPsazh6X17v2tZCyOodbMZqVoRFnCgQcM7ibpnDtvTB0PSquH7wdDN7Z7DQc5oISS42SwFQApuJFqCCduPfsFUW8iSBurSJVK4FyjCn2J6iq0=w1714-h964-no


Like I said, I tried to document what I did in my build thread in my sig. Check it out.

One thing I didn't do was rough-up the rust encapsulator coat prior to the top coat. It wouldn't have taken much but I was working like crazy to meet a deadline. Nevertheless, the top coat adhered very well to the rust encapsulator (white) coat with a 24 hour dry between these two coats. I've dropped wrenches and all is good. I'm probably just second guessing myself.

That photo looks all too familiar. I have about 6-7 spots just like that I have repaired. Definitely going to check out your thread. The more I see these frames with the KBS and POR15 products, the more I'm leaning towards breaking out the wire and flap wheels. I'm pulling the body back off tomorrow to store so I'll be making a decision.

Here's a couple shots of one of many of my frame repairs %)


 

bknbronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
4,378
Loc.
North Metro, MN
at this point just keep using the cheep aerosol spray cans. no point in throwing 200 bucks worth of paint over some crap rust converting primer and undercoating.

Or do it right and fix all the stuff and have it blasted and then spray some epoxy primer and single stage urethane over that

but then again its just a chassis and we all know that anything below the body will be rusting and look like shit after 5 years anyways so why be so anal.

My vote is some walmart rustolium spray bomb

when i did my frame off i wasnt set up to shoot 2 part paints and i used POR and there topcoat and there metal ready. I found it to be expensive and not worth the cost. I wish i would have set myself up to shoot real paints a few months sooner than i did so i could have used a SS urethane on my frame instead of the por.

POR is decent for a 1 part paint, brush on system, but you have to use all 3 parts of there system..... on bare metal....not just the POR paint
 
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callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
at this point just keep using the cheep aerosol spray cans. no point in throwing 200 bucks worth of paint over some crap rust converting primer and undercoating.

Or do it right and fix all the stuff and have it blasted and then spray some epoxy primer and single stage urethane over that

I 100% agree. If I do it I'll do it right. It'll just take a lot more work, but that's been the name of the game on this project. Since I'm not financing it though, ultimately it's up to my buddy if he wants to pay for it.

Speaking of which, I found these two kits on amazon:
KBS Frame Coater Kit: $62

KBS All-in-One Chassis Kit: $89

Is it really worth it for the extra top coat and thinner?

Each one says the kit is enough to do one frame. Doesn't look like a whole lot of paint though. Do I need one or two kits?
 

bknbronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
4,378
Loc.
North Metro, MN
POR is not UV stable and will chalk up in the sun. Thats why you need there UV stable topcoat. Frame wont see much light but the ends of the frame horns will show notocible fading and chalking.

The KBS must be similar???

walmart sells quart cans of black rustolium. i brushed a trailer frame with it years ago and it held up as well as POR
 
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callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
Definitely going to invest in one of these options for the inside of the frame. The KBS is a wax coating and Eastwood is an encapsulating paint. What do you guys think? I'm leaning more towards the Eastwood for longevity. 5001craig, that's what you used right? How many cans did it take you?

KBS Cavity Coater

Eastwood Internal Frame Coating
 
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callmemarsh

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
157
POR is not UV stable and will chalk up in the sun. Thats why you need there UV stable topcoat. Frame wont see much light but the ends of the frame horns will show notocible fading and chalking.

The KBS must be similar???

walmart sells quart cans of black rustolium. i brushed a trailer frame with it years ago and it held up as well as POR

Walmart has a few Rustoleum options. Are you talking about the regular old Enamel?

Seems like that might be a good compromise and it's oil based so I should be able to prep my current paint job and go over it right?
 

bknbronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
4,378
Loc.
North Metro, MN
yup yup just like the pic in your link. Im only recomending this because you were looking to cover some already existing paint work....and that the paint already used isnt a expensive 2K paint. Rustolium isnt my first choice paint for anything, but works well for undercarrage parts and axles, driveshafts, springs etc. i typically dont rattle can anything. but since this also comes in quarts and you were looking to brush on i figured what the hell.
 
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