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Johnny joint on trackbar

phred

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I added long arms to a bronco and after everything was bolted and aligned in place the front axle is forward of centerline about 1/2-3/4 of and inch. The axle cycles well and in essences I have “extended” the wheel base just a little. The issue is at full droop it really binds the top bushing on the track bar.
I’m thing of replacing that end with a Johnny joint for better movement and save myself from replacing that bushing every 6 months. Any thoughts pro or con?


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Yeller

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just do to the size of a johnny joint and fab needed to make it work, I'd look really hard at a heim a high quality heim joint will last a lifetime.
 

garberz

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I pushed my axle forward 1 1/2” when I installed my Duff long arms. I also moved everything else including the frame end of the track bar mount. That mount is forward 2 1/2”. I use 3/4” heims on both ends of my track bar. The first thing to bind now would be the driveshaft.

Mark
 

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phred

phred

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Thanks guys. I thought about heims first but was leaning towards the Johnny joint to eliminate some vibration from the road. Didn’t think about the size of the joint being an issue. Heims it is. Already enough extra fab work going on. No need to and one more thing to the list.


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toddz69

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I use heims on mine too - they do impact 'system harshness' somewhat but I'm ok with it.

I've used various brands over the years and I've found the Performance Unlimited ones last the longest (limited to 3/4" bore/3/4" shank only though) because Randall stakes them so tight.

Todd Z.
 

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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Go GOOD quality heim...

Chipping in here because my poly bushings lasted on avg a year... (no joke-every year)

My first heim joint track bar lasted almost 16 years

My next heim joint (from an unnamed and well respected off road vendor (not an EB vendor) lasted one year...one flipping year...

Go with a quality heim. https://www.fkrodends.com/products/rod-ends/commercial-industrial/cm-cml/

...
 
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nvrstuk

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Todd- is this the Randall that was on the old EBML ? If so, this is who I bought my original track bar that lasted 16 years...I stole the joints from my new replacement one from them and it is NOT the same quality...
 

broncodriver99

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There is a reason heims are not DOT approved. Zero safety factor. Sure many guys get by with them for years, apparently. I Personally would correct the geometry and run an OEM joint, ie. has a backup washer or is engineered so that it can't separate completely.

What's your everyday use scenario? If this is a rock crawler then yes, run the heim, but if it a street driver with occasional off road stick with the safe bet, a well engineered OEM joint.
 

toddz69

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Todd- is this the Randall that was on the old EBML ? If so, this is who I bought my original track bar that lasted 16 years...I stole the joints from my new replacement one from them and it is NOT the same quality...

Yes. I bought my first one about 10 years ago and then a second one for the other one a few years ago. Both seemed to be of the same quality but maybe they have slipped in recent years?

Todd Z.
 

Yeller

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There is a reason heims are not DOT approved. Zero safety factor. Sure many guys get by with them for years, apparently. I Personally would correct the geometry and run an OEM joint, ie. has a backup washer or is engineered so that it can't separate completely.

What's your everyday use scenario? If this is a rock crawler then yes, run the heim, but if it a street driver with occasional off road stick with the safe bet, a well engineered OEM joint.

I don't want to insult or create a debate, I have heard this for decades and yet to find proof. Ever had a tie rod/drag link separate? no safety there either. With a safety washer in single shear or have it in double shear, its cannot fail unless there is a complete failure of the joint. OEM joints are not designed to take the use and abuse that we dish out. Maybe someone in the industry can answer that, I've been requesting the proof for decades and never a peep.
 

bmc69

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I don't want to insult or create a debate, I have heard this for decades and yet to find proof. Ever had a tie rod/drag link separate? no safety there either. With a safety washer in single shear or have it in double shear, its cannot fail unless there is a complete failure of the joint. OEM joints are not designed to take the use and abuse that we dish out. Maybe someone in the industry can answer that, I've been requesting the proof for decades and never a peep.

Same here...I've seen the same claims but no backup. And think about how many of those rascals are on aircraft... ;) Besides..I've seen many a separated ball joint as used on tie rods, drag links and suspension members. I've yet to see a heim fail like that.
 

sykanr0ng

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There may not be any law against it.
For those of us that live in states without motor vehicle inspections required it is probably not going to be an issue, but those with inspections may have problems.
Think about all the engine swaps in places like California that would be clean on the sniffer but fail visual inspection because some inspector does not recognize what is there. This is like that.
 

Yeller

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Think about all the engine swaps in places like California that would be clean on the sniffer but fail visual inspection because some inspector does not recognize what is there. This is like that.

There are LOTS of vehicles in Cali with hiem joints on everything, very plentiful, many of them that are home built and issued an mso and title after very stringent inspections.
 

68ford

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There is a reason heims are not DOT approved. Zero safety factor. Sure many guys get by with them for years, apparently. I Personally would correct the geometry and run an OEM joint, ie. has a backup washer or is engineered so that it can't separate completely.

What's your everyday use scenario? If this is a rock crawler then yes, run the heim, but if it a street driver with occasional off road stick with the safe bet, a well engineered OEM joint.

Do you realize how sloppy a heim would be in order for it to fall off the ball? Rediculous claim!

That being said I ran my last set of heim steering for roughly 60,000 rougher than normal offroading and crawling and when I sold the assembly all of the 7/8 heims we're still tight. Actually hard to turn the ball. Like new. That throws worrying about them wearing to the point of separating right out the window.

Speaking of DOT, not one single suspension component, steering component or brake modification is DOT legal. Your disc kit and hydroboost ILLEGAL. Anything that is not as engineered by Ford for that model year is illegal.

Now back to reality, your 100 times more likely to get a mudflap ticket than a ticket for heim steering :p
 

broncodriver99

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Do you realize how sloppy a heim would be in order for it to fall off the ball? Rediculous claim!

Sure I do. I see failed heims fairly often. They are used quite a bit in industry. It does happen. What's a ridiculous claim? They are NOT DOT approved.

That being said I ran my last set of heim steering for roughly 60,000 rougher than normal offroading and crawling and when I sold the assembly all of the 7/8 heims we're still tight. Actually hard to turn the ball. Like new. That throws worrying about them wearing to the point of separating right out the window.

Understood. When properly engineered and sized I have no doubt a high quality joint will perform just fine.

Speaking of DOT, not one single suspension component, steering component or brake modification is DOT legal. Your disc kit and hydroboost ILLEGAL. Anything that is not as engineered by Ford for that model year is illegal.

That may be. Some components do have DOT exemption numbers/certs though. But, heims have never been "approved" for on road use. I don't know of any OEM that has used them from the factory, nor do I think they can.


Now back to reality, your 100 times more likely to get a mudflap ticket than a ticket for heim steering :p

Maybe in CA but in VA with our annual vehicle inspection depending on who is doing the inspection it is completely possible to fail because of a heim and/or modified suspension.

Agree with me or not, phred was asking for opinions pro or con. I offered one.

My understanding is that because of the way they are made they don't meet the criteria for safety factor and therefore are not approved for on road use. They may perform just fine. Mounting them in double sheer or using a safely washer definitely increases the likelihood that a joint failure would not be catastrophic.

In phred's situation where it is a misalignment issue and the joint would be mounted in double sheer the joint would likely perform just fine and probably better than the bushing. But IMO correcting the geometry is a better approach as if there is that much misalignment at the top there is still going to be an alignment issue with the bottom bushing even with a heim at the top of the trac bar.
 

Yeller

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Sure I do. I see failed heims fairly often. They are used quite a bit in industry. It does happen. What's a ridiculous claim? They are NOT DOT approved.



Understood. When properly engineered and sized I have no doubt a high quality joint will perform just fine.



That may be. Some components do have DOT exemption numbers/certs though. But, heims have never been "approved" for on road use. I don't know of any OEM that has used them from the factory, nor do I think they can.




Maybe in CA but in VA with our annual vehicle inspection depending on who is doing the inspection it is completely possible to fail because of a heim and/or modified suspension.

Agree with me or not, phred was asking for opinions pro or con. I offered one.

My understanding is that because of the way they are made they don't meet the criteria for safety factor and therefore are not approved for on road use. They may perform just fine. Mounting them in double sheer or using a safely washer definitely increases the likelihood that a joint failure would not be catastrophic.

In phred's situation where it is a misalignment issue and the joint would be mounted in double sheer the joint would likely perform just fine and probably better than the bushing. But IMO correcting the geometry is a better approach as if there is that much misalignment at the top there is still going to be an alignment issue with the bottom bushing even with a heim at the top of the trac bar.

Sorry if I offended you in any way. all of the advice and conjecture that has been provided to Phred is solid and in no way discounting it’s relevance. I will start a thread discussing the potential legality issues.

My apologies and everyone have a fantastic weekend
 
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