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PS or Hydroboost issue...strg effort increases with rpm...

tirewater

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A google search of the issue shows that quite a few people have experienced hydro boost issues similar to what you're experiencing. A lot of them seem to be related to the pump failing and not being able to provide enough pressure to run the brakes and the steering at the same time.

You've probably covered all those bases, but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

That's where I'm leaning also... I can push on the brakes and have NO possibility of turning the strg wheel.

So I hopped in my HB equipped diesel truck, literally stomped on the brakes and I can turn the strg wheel easily...

Talked with Eddie again at VanCo and he's still working on ideas...

My question is...has anybody ever had to send a hydroboost out to VanCo to be ported to essentially change the brake bias proportioning and allow more flow? Eddie has not been pushing this but I"ve talked to him months before about this and some Pirate guys have done this with good results.... super spendy ...
 

ET

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I've always wondered if folks that has HB issues are using a car HB or a diesel HB. I got mine from the breadvan I pull my motor out of. Im using similar setup as you except stock eb gearbox. When I had problems trurning, it was bad ps pump. Replace and works back to normal. I can hold bronco in low and turn wheel with ease. This with ram.

Like your diesel pickup, no problem holding the truck in gear and turning the wheel. Just a thought.

edit. I guess Im wondering if all HB are the same? But then Vanco surely will know this.

Eugene
 
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nhopman

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That's where I'm leaning also... I can push on the brakes and have NO possibility of turning the strg wheel.

So I hopped in my HB equipped diesel truck, literally stomped on the brakes and I can turn the strg wheel easily...

Talked with Eddie again at VanCo and he's still working on ideas...

My question is...has anybody ever had to send a hydroboost out to VanCo to be ported to essentially change the brake bias proportioning and allow more flow? Eddie has not been pushing this but I"ve talked to him months before about this and some Pirate guys have done this with good results.... super spendy ...

I had mine ported at VanCo. Yes, spendy bu really helped turning the wheels at low RPM with brakes applied. I would have to rum RPM to 12-1400 to be able to get the wheels to turn with brake applied, now they turn fine at idle.
If I remember correctly, before the porting when I applied the brakes it was like the whole hydraulic system shut down, you could hear the "groaning" in the lines and feel vibrations in the brake pedal.

Just for reference, my HB was out of an Astro van, with Saginaw canned ham pump dual return line (one from the HB, one after the steering box & cooler) I did drill the pump piston per West Texas site for a bit more pressure. I am also running a steering assist ram as well.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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So nshopman you couldn't turn your wheels with the brakes on at idle even WITH the ram and AstoVan hydroboost until you got the HB poted by Vanco?
 

Yeller

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I've installed a few ported units on customer rides and the only difference myself or the owners could tell was more braking power. But none of them were previously running HB so I honestly can't compare before vs after
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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More braking power I don't need!! Stop w/40"s on a dime...cant turn to save my life (and hopefully will never have to)!! :)
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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I havent rerouted my cooler line yet...been welding the past 2 days..done with wheelbarrows for a while I hope!!!:)
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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So I had a thought today... just dawned on me that I can just isolate the HB...connect the pressure in and the return flow out to the pump together so I can see if the strg does it's weird thing w/o the brakes being applied...will try tomorrow late afternoon ...

yeah, brakes will be tough..
 

ame

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This is interesting! If you can create the steering issues while sitting still I would jack the front tires off the ground and see what it does, at that point there is no resistance on the box so if the steering is stiff or wont turn that pretty well indicates the issue has to be in the Box itself IMO, if it feels normal then likely more of a HB issue. Not a definitive test by any means but would be interesting to see the results.
 

toddz69

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So I had a thought today... just dawned on me that I can just isolate the HB...connect the pressure in and the return flow out to the pump together so I can see if the strg does it's weird thing w/o the brakes being applied...will try tomorrow late afternoon ...

yeah, brakes will be tough..

Handy way to check and see where the problem is!

Let us know....

Todd Z.
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Will do...also figured with this test I could put to rest all the theories about brakes when the HB fails!! Haha

I'll let you know if I can stop... :)

I'm figuring about an hour to bleed the air out...maybe not as long with the HB out.
 

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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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A 9 sec video wouldnt post so...
-as I'm running the engine and not turning the strg yet i have 0 psi
-cranking the wheel with the engine running I have about 150-200psi
-when the outer knuckle hits the limiting bolt on the inner knuckle it quickly hits 1000+psi

Still bleeding air...
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Update...drove out the drive and each time i bumped the strg side to side I'd get 200-300psi.

Driving straight- zero pressure

Drove up against the tractor tire, cranked the wheel either direction and I get 1350 psi.

Heading out for 4 hr trip with the box to have it pressure tested and flow tested...
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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I did my 5 1/2 hr rd trip...got to wander all around inside the HUGE shop at Redhead steering in Auburn, Wa. They get 150 core boxes/day...it was cool to be able to wander all around and see the literally thousand boxes built or in the process of...all the cool stuff they use to test them with.

My box flowed ok for gpm & psi but when turning it on the test stand at pressure the head tech told me it could use a rebuild...was turning the same left to right but he didn't like it...obviously old...

Hopefully in 2 days if I have time it might be the fix...not crossing my fingers....
 
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nvrstuk

nvrstuk

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Got the newly rebuilt box back. Ball brgs were worn so bad they had to bump up 4 sizes, sector shaft was fine, got a new housing...

Put it on about midnight and took it for a drive today after bleeding air out of the system for hours...

Symptoms are hard to reproduce...yet. Only had a few minutes to test although it tracked SOOO straight and true...much better 'rebuild" than the first one it had a few yrs back by a large reputable strg outfit...

Will test it some more and post up when I get a chance to.

Thanks for all the help.
 

DirtDonk

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Yes, isolate the two systems. And also do what ame said. With the tires off the ground you should be able to turn your steering wheel easily even without any assist. I know you have big tires, but I forget what your linkage is setup like.

But the real reason I chimed in at all (since I have zero personal experience with a setup like yours) was to find out if your gearbox is just ported and capped, or if you have a steering ram connected?
If you have a ram, is it possible that the lines are backwards?
What made me think of this is that it got harder to steer as pressure went up. With ram-assist, as opposed to full hydraulic, your gearbox is mechanically linked and only going to work one way. Whereas the hydraulic ram could be pushing against it if plumbed wrong.

I'm not familiar enough with the assist setup to know if this is even possible. But it sounded plausible and the only thing I could think of for why it would get harder as pressure went up.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Sorry. Only got to the second page and started my reply before even noticing that there were more posts!

Paul
 

sykanr0ng

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Got the newly rebuilt box back. Ball brgs were worn so bad they had to bump up 4 sizes, sector shaft was fine, got a new housing...

Put it on about midnight and took it for a drive today after bleeding air out of the system for hours...

Symptoms are hard to reproduce...yet. Only had a few minutes to test although it tracked SOOO straight and true...much better 'rebuild" than the first one it had a few yrs back by a large reputable strg outfit...

Will test it some more and post up when I get a chance to.

Thanks for all the help.

Does not surprise me that much.
Parts for older Ford steering boxes are often impossible to find and so most shops only replace the seals and call that a rebuild.There are only a few shops that actually make their own parts in house or have them made and what those shops do are true rebuilds.
 
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