Trouble starting fresh build

I’ve got spark and I checked by pulling a plug and hooking it up outside of the engine and cranked it and saw the spark.

I’ve got 6.5lbs of fuel pressure and I can see fuel squirt when I move the throttle. I’ve got a brand new edelbrock carb. I’ve read conflicting information about manually filling the bowls on it when utilizing an electric fuel pump(which I am).

Starter spins great. I just can’t get the thing to fire.

Pulled a couple of plugs and they are bone dry. I did prime the oil system before cranking on it and have a solid 50psi using a drill.

I’ve checked timing and have it set at 8* before TDC and I did verify it’s the correct TDC on #1. I’ve checked plug wiring and firing order and matched it to my cam card which uses the HO firing order.

The only two things I can think of is either I’m not getting fuel or maybe once the lifters pumped up the lash tightened up and the valves are open and bleeding compression.

Any thoughts?


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

Hi, if the fuel squirts out when you open the throttle you have gas in the carb.
I would pump the throttle fully at least two times and crank it. Usually you have to twist the distributor one way or the other, and the engine should start. Good luck

You getting any back fires, seems like you have done everything right

Got spark

is that timing set on the compression stroke?
did you wire the plugs in Ford order or chevy order?

Got one back fire after pumping the throttle while cranking.

Timing was on compression stroke. Rolled engine over until intake closed and then exhaust just started to open, marked the balancer. Rolled it back until intake started to open, marked the balancer. Found the half way point.

It’s wired 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 per the cam card.


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

How did you adjust the valves ?

I personally didn’t do it. My brother in law did it and he’s a certified mechanic and has built a few engines in his time. But that was done 3 years ago and although we soaked the lifters in oil I doubt they were pumped up. He did say they were done at zero lash.


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

The quickest way to check is run a compression test

That’s only my list for this weekend.


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

if your compression test comes back bad and you think the valves are too tight or not tight enough this is the way I have always set them on a rebuild ... please bear with me and I hope you understand what I am getting at as long as you have the stock studs in the head and stover nuts to adjust them the easiest and cleanest way I have found to set them is to take you firing order off your cam card and split it in half
1 3 7 2
6 5 4 8

Turn it over in direction of rotation I would start on number 1 so to adjust 1 you watch the lifters on 6 the intake lifter will start going up let it go all the way up and then back down as soon as it’s down the exhaust valve will start opening..STOP turning the motor go to 1 one valves back off the nut for the rocker till it is loose then slowly tighten it till it just starts getting snug not sloppy any more and the tighten the nut one full turn do that for both valves then turn the motor over again this time watch 5 adjust 3 with the same process as before next watch 4 adjust 7 watch 8 adjust 2 then watch 1 adjust 6 watch 3 adjust 5, watch 7 adjust 4 then watch 8 adjust 2 hope that is a little clearer than mud if you look at how I split the firing order the top and bottom numbers are 180 apart you watch one adjust the other
Chris

Makes sense. It’s how I used to adjust the valves in my diesel.


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

Readhead said:

if your compression test comes back bad and you think the valves are too tight or not tight enough this is the way I have always set them on a rebuild ... please bear with me and I hope you understand what I am getting at as long as you have the stock studs in the head and stover nuts to adjust them the easiest and cleanest way I have found to set them is to take you firing order off your cam card and split it in half
1 3 7 2
6 5 4 8

Turn it over in direction of rotation I would start on number 1 so to adjust 1 you watch the lifters on 6 the intake lifter will start going up let it go all the way up and then back down as soon as it’s down the exhaust valve will start opening..STOP turning the motor go to 1 one valves back off the nut for the rocker till it is loose then slowly tighten it till it just starts getting snug not sloppy any more and the tighten the nut one full turn do that for both valves then turn the motor over again this time watch 5 adjust 3 with the same process as before next watch 4 adjust 7 watch 8 adjust 2 then watch 1 adjust 6 watch 3 adjust 5, watch 7 adjust 4 then watch 8 adjust 2 hope that is a little clearer than mud if you look at how I split the firing order the top and bottom numbers are 180 apart you watch one adjust the other
Chris

Click to expand...

But...it does not sound like his engine is so old that it has adjustable rockers..

centex77 said:

Got one back fire after pumping the throttle while cranking.

Click to expand...

Then at least you know it's trying. Sounds like your timing may be off in spite of all you've tried so far to make it correct.

centex77 said:

Timing was on compression stroke. Rolled engine over until intake closed and then exhaust just started to open, marked the balancer. Rolled it back until intake started to open, marked the balancer. Found the half way point.

Click to expand...

That might be ok for setting lash, but what does that have to do with TDC? A different cam will show you a different spot with that method and neither one of them could be near correct TDC. Halfway between intake and exhaust valve events does not dictate that the piston is at the top of it's compression stroke. Only the position of the piston does that, and you can't check it by watching the cam events unless you have a degree wheel mounted to the gear, cam card in hand, and know your way around the geometry books!
You still need to find TDC.

First though, just so we're all on the same page:
1. You were turning the crank clockwise, correct? Sounds like it, but just checking.
2. You did wire your firing order counter-clockwise from #1 plug position?
3. You are using the passenger side front cylinder as #1 cylinder?
4. Where are the original markings on the damper?
5. Is this a new damper, or the old one?
6. Where is the timing pointer?
7. Is this an original-to-the-Bronco timing cover and pointer?
8. And is this a flat-tappet cam? If so you need to get it running, like NOW!
I know that's super hard at this point, since you seem to have it all dialed in and it won't start, but you really need to stop cranking the starter on your new cam or you can ruin it before you even fire the engine.
If it's a roller cam, sorry for the drama-queen act.%)

centex77 said:

1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

Click to expand...

Was the engine original to the Bronco as far as you know?
Aluminum heads mean it's got an adjustable valvetrain now, so that answers that question. Flat tappet or roller cam?
Correct distributor gear, if a roller cam?

To your question about fuel, I'm not sure why you would have heard different opinions on filling the carb. You can fill the carb no matter what type of pump yo have. Doesn't change things at the floats, as they don't care where the fuel comes from.
Now, if you meant there is no "need" to do it with an electric pump, then that's pretty much correct as long as the pump is pulling/pushing gas the way it's supposed to.
You simply turn the key and the pump does the work for you. Should not have to fill the carb by hand with an electric pump.

But if the pump is pulling from a distance, that can change drastically. In other words, if the pump is brand new and mounted in the engine compartment instead of back by the tank(s) then it might not want to prime right way.
However, since you said you have gas in the carb, the point is moot. Gas squirting is gas squirting no matter how it got there.

Zero-lash is a hard thing for first-timers to do by feel. But it sounds like your brother has done this before successfully, so that puts less doubt on your valve adjustment. If he left them at zero lash you might actually have some ticking in the valvetrain when it's running. So that would confirm they're not too tight.
But definitely do a (very quick!) compression check anyway.
Trust, but verify...

Good luck. But I say re-re-re-check your timing and make sure you have a correct TDC location marked.

Paul

There’s nothing original on this engine. It’s adjustable roller rockers with a trick flow cam and Trick Flow aluminum heads (just realized my sig is wrong). It’s a roller cam so no worries there.



I also checked TDC with a piston stop.

Yes turning crank clockwise.

This is the diagram I used for the plug wiring.


Yes I used front passenger cylinder as #1.

New balancer. Utilizing the pointer that came with the engine (block is from an 87 thunderbird that the previous owner installed) and I’ve got tape on the balancer once I found TDC.




1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/AFR aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

Am I missing something .... I don’t see push rods ??

Haha. The push rods are installed. They aren’t in that picture but I assure you they are.


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/Trick Flow aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

Ok good deal

centex77 said:

...I also checked TDC with a piston stop.
Yes turning crank clockwise.
Yes I used front passenger cylinder as #1.
New balancer.
Utilizing the pointer that came with the engine (block is from an 87 thunderbird that the previous owner installed) and I’ve got tape on the balancer once I found TDC.

Click to expand...

Well crapola! Figured you'd left something outta there, but seems you've got it all dialed in pretty accurately then. The back and forth with the rockers might not do anything for finding TDC, but doing it with a piston stop sure does. And timing tape is the way to go.

So the only thing that could still be wrong with timing is still the one that is the most common. Being 180 out with the distributor.
If you found TDC with the piston stop AND watched the rockers to make sure that you were on TDC of the compression stroke (and it sounds like you did) then that's not very likely either.
But just for s-n-g's did you put your finger over the #1 spark plug hole and crank the engine past the TDC mark and verify that pressure was building significantly trying to push your finger off? At the same time noting that the distributor rotor was pointing towards the proper terminal?

That would be the only other test I could think of that doesn't involve pulling anything apart. And it would also give you at least an initial indication of compression, even if it doesn't give you total numbers like a gauge would.

Did you mention what type of distributor you had?

Good luck.

Paul

I did not try the finger in the hole. Kinda hard doing it by yourself.

It’s an MSD distributor and coil.

That’s why this is so frustrating. I’ve crossed my T’s and dotted my I’s. Could go for broke and squirt some starter fluid in it. Or drop a match down the intake....


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/Trick Flow aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body

Readhead said:

Ok good deal

Click to expand...

I wish missing push rods were the problem. That’s an easy fix!!


1977 Ford Bronco/Fiberglass Body/302 bored .030/balanced/Trick Flow aluminum heads/cam/5spd/Locked w/ 4.10’s/35” BFG/4” suspension/3” body