Ignition switch frustration

[berickso]

Hey friends, super grateful for this forum, and I have read just about every thread I could find on ignition issues, and I still can't seem to solve this.

I have a 74 302 w/auto, Painless wiring harness that I installed myself, and the truck has been my daily driver for much of the last 2.5 years. Throughout that period, I havea. recurring but random no start condition, where the ignition switch will give "run" power, but not send power to the starter. On occasion, I have simply replaced the ignition switch or the tumbler and it fixed the problem, only to pop back up a few weeks later. I don't know if something is frying my ignition switches or there is another issue going on. I have also replaced the solenoid and the ignition module, just to make sure those weren't the issue.

When it doesn't start, I can often get it going fine by popping out the tumbler and turning it over with a screwdriver in the switch (which I know is not good for the switch, but gets me home). Has anyone installed a push button start tied in to your ignition switch? What I would love is to keep my keyed ignition and then have a button to push to kick on the starter. That would make this thing fool-proof (in theory, at least).

Thanks for any wisdom you can share. I don't know how many switches and tumblers I've bought at this point, but it's quite the collection.
Brian

 

[Wild horse 75]

If you still have the starter solenoid on the inner fender you can simply jump it with a screwdriver in an emergency. Just turn the key to run first. Then with making sure your transmission is either in park or neutral you can jump out and jump the solenoid.

 

[ba123]

frustrating fo-sho!

not sure how much help I can be, but will try, since that is a very odd one,.

Are you sure you don't have any shorts?

Disconnect your battery and test resistance between positive and negative. If there is conductivity, isolate one by one and see where it's coming from. Sometimes it is ok, based on what it is, but for most general electronics and def period specific electronics, i don't think you should have ANY.

Also, I can't count how many people constantly chime in with issues having Painless wiring. Is it Painless, or is it just that much more popular and coincidence?

 

[4xfun]

It sounds like there is an issue with the wiring or connections that may get shifted when remove the tumbler. Intermittent wiring issues are hard to find. If you decide to go down the push button route, it is relativity easy. There are a number of aftermarket switches. I would suggest wiring one with a relay to reduce the power draw on the switch.

 

[Johnnyb]

I thought I would add my experience here, I too have a painless harness and a replacement OEM ignition switch. My problem is I can't get the accessory position to work.
I wonder if there's a batch of OEM switches that has some problem with the range of motion?

Thanks,
JB

 

[DirtDonk]

That’s always a possibility. Especially these days!
There was also a bad batch of replacement connectors that go to the back of the switch. I don’t think any of them were Painless, but were unfortunately another major supplier’s cheap knock offs.
As far as I know, we haven’t had any trouble with the Painless version up to the moment.
But almost none of the individual components these days, are built to the same standards as they were 30 years ago.

With your problem JB, do all the accessories work when you turn the key into the ON position? Just not working in the ACC position?

 

[DirtDonk]

And berickso, just grasping for anything at the moment, but what gauge are your battery and starter cables? And are they new, or older?
What kind of starter?
I hope you kept all the old parts for the time being. Many of them may be perfectly good.
I guess time will tell…

 

[ba123]

I think your best bet is to be ready for one of those no-start situations, leave the ignition in the run position, and then run your tests.

First off, how sure are you that it's your ignition and not your starter? Can you attach a voltmeter to your starter wire and see if it send the signal to verify it is or is not sending?

Could also be a bad ground...it does happen!

You are saying that everything is getting power in that position, but just not turning over, correct?

 

[DirtDonk]

Can also be a finicky neutral safety switch. So don’t overlook that.

 

[Johnnyb]

That’s always a possibility. Especially these days!
There was also a bad batch of replacement connectors that go to the back of the switch. I don’t think any of them were Painless, but were unfortunately another major supplier’s cheap knock offs.
As far as I know, we haven’t had any trouble with the Painless version up to the moment.
But almost none of the individual components these days, are built to the same standards as they were 30 years ago.

With your problem JB, do all the accessories work when you turn the key into the ON position? Just not working in the ACC position?

Yes all accessories get power in the ON position, but not in the ACC position. To be honest I have not taken the cylinder out and tried to manually move it to the accessory position yet, but my suspicion is that they will energize if moved manually.
I have an OEM connector for the back of the switch, soldered to the painless harness. As I understand it however, power to the accessories flows through the same pins in both ON and ACC position
I also have the OEM cylinder for the vehicle which I may test, except for it takes any key and even a popsicle stick.

Thanks,
JB

 

[DirtDonk]

You could cut notches in a popsicle stick to make it look like a key, just as a conversation starter anytime people see you use it.

 

[berickso]

Thanks for all these replies, y'all! I am going to go in the order of response, and check each of these things. It's just so frustratingly erratic...

 

[DirtDonk]

I have an OEM connector for the back of the switch, soldered to the painless harness. As I understand it however, power to the accessories flows through the same pins in both ON and ACC position.

Just revisiting this.
What color wire is on the center pin of the back of the switch? I know the original was Black w/green, but Painless uses another color. Can't remember at the moment, but just checking.
Accessory power is fed ONLY through that center stud. It has power in both ON and ACC like you said. But the other wires on the switch have power in different positions.
Red w/blue is hot in START only.
Red w/green and Green w/red are hot in ON only. And not hot in ACC.

So if you have your accessory wire connected to one of the latter two, you won't have power in ACC position.
Could that be the issue?

Paul

 

[Johnnyb]

Just revisiting this.
What color wire is on the center pin of the back of the switch? I know the original was Black w/green, but Painless uses another color. Can't remember at the moment, but just checking.
Accessory power is fed ONLY through that center stud. It has power in both ON and ACC like you said. But the other wires on the switch have power in different positions.
Red w/blue is hot in START only.
Red w/green and Green w/red are hot in ON only. And not hot in ACC.

So if you have your accessory wire connected to one of the latter two, you won't have power in ACC position.
Could that be the issue?

Paul

So bringing back up an old topic, I was just able to test the post in the middle of the switch. It gets power in the on position but not in the accessory position.
I tried removing the cylinder and manually rotating to accessory and got the same results.
Is this an indicator of a bad switch?

Thanks,
JB

 

[DirtDonk]

I would have to say yes. If it were any of the other wires, it could be a defect in the way the wires connect. But the center stud is a physical part of the ignition switch and not removable. Sounds like you have a bad switch.
You don’t happen to have an old one laying around you could test? Or is this one the old one?

 

[NJBronk]

Is this the original ignition switch? I got a new one in a set with new door locks because my ignition key didn't match the door keys. When installing everything my original ignition essentially crumbled in my hands while removing it... I'm surprised it ran at all before.

 

[Johnnyb]

Got a new one at Carquest for $20.00 (The switch part), I'll give it a try today (hopefully). The existing one is also "new," but I got it several years ago in a big parts buy.

THX,
-JB

 

[DirtDonk]

Yeah, as we have found many times, new doesn’t always equal good. And just as often is not, the old stuff is better than the new.